people will not ask them that "Why you have stopped this expedition?" morning
walk with disciples, Waikiki Beach, Honolulu, June 2, 1975
[Comparing scientists to a student who bluffed his way through an
examination] ... saw the question, but he cannot answer. So he
began to write words like this, whole book, and the examiners saw that
it has no meaning. But he has coined so many words. They said, "Very
intelligent." They passed him. [laughter] Now, "upperfluous." You don't
find all these words in dictionary. "Upperfluous rain of agua was
dogbendikulali gondolized by lacticism of wine." It appears very
gramatically nicely composed, but it has no meaning. So he coined such
words, a full book. Because he could not answer. So the time was there.
He began to coin words. And he was passed, for his intelligence.
Similarly, these people are putting words which you cannot understand,
and they are getting their salaries, that's all. Let them invent
something, that they will not die, there will be no disease, there will
be no old age. That is something. What is this nonsense, simply
The cloud is standing there. It is not systematic. Then why the
gravitation is not working? There are millions and millions tons of
water. Why the gravitation is not working? The law of gravitation, why
it is not working? Don't work with a cloud.[?] What is the answer? They
are not systematic changing. Why? Why the gravitation is not working,
fall down? They are heavy, very heavy when they, what is called...
Agitation. What is called?
Prabhupada: Friction, yes.
There is so much sound. So why it is not falling down?
Indian man: The scientist
says the pull of gravitation starts only so high.
Prabhupada: Why it is not
working in all heights? Then what is their theory? If it is working
under certain condition, who made this condition? [break] ...the
nature, "Now you get down these islands. Get[?] the water," can they do
Bali-mardana: No, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Then how they
will come to know? [break] If Krishna wants, immediately this land, by
earthquake, can go down, immediately, within a second. So in the Vedic
literature nature is accepted. But the creation, maintenance,
destruction, that is in the hand of God, not nature.
Bali-mardana: Scientists used
to say that they can control the weather. They used to make big
propaganda, "We are now going to control."
Prabhupada: Another foolish
Bali-mardana: Now they have
Prabhupada: You see? They
want to draw some salary, big salaries, by bluffing the government and
the public. This is their business. They are failing. They have
finished their business on this planet; now they are going another
planet. These are nonsense. They know that "We... So as far as
possible, we have bluffed. Now our business in this planet is finished.
So let us go to another planet." This is going on.
Paramahamsa: Even if they
wanted to stop this space project, they couldn't stop because they've
already spent billions of dollars for making equipment and rocket ships
and launching pads and rocket bases and so many employees. If they
stop, then so much would be wasted, so many people would be unemployed.
So they have to continue even if they know that it's a bluff.
Prabhupada: That is the way
of falsehood. If once you speak something false, then to protect that
falsehood you have to take to so many other falsehoods. This is the way
Paramahamsa: One lie leads to
Prabhupada: Now they are
going to Venus, Americans and Russians combined together?
Ambarisa: This summer.
Prabhupada: Oh, in the
summer. Venus is very cold? Why they have selected summer season?
They could not go to the moon, and Venus is far above moon. How they
Bali-mardana: They're not
going to Venus, are they?
Paramahamsa: Are they going
Bali-mardana: No, they're
just going around the earth, right?
Ambarisa: Yeah, they're
linking up in space.
Devotee (3): Prabhupada, when
they said they went to the moon and they showed films of them landing
and walking on the moon, was this all a bluff?
Prabhupada: Yes, here they...
All laboratory work, that's all.
Devotee (3): They all made it
they are not going to go to Venus. The American and Russian, they are
just going to meet outside the earth. They are not going to any planet.
Prabhupada: Oh, that is
Bali-mardana: It is too
Ambarisa: They're going to
meet in space and float around in space.
Prabhupada: That is birds are
doing also. What is the credit?
Paramahamsa: They are
thinking that "What is the use of going to any other planet, because
there is no life on the other planets."
Prabhupada: Why no life?
Paramahamsa: Well, they have
photographs and things.
Prabhupada: Photograph, what
is this nonsense photograph? How long it can go up?
Ambarisa: They're taken from
hundreds of miles up in space, and then they say there is no life.
Prabhupada: What is hundreds
of miles? It is, er, forty billion, what is that?
Paramahamsa: Four billion.
Prabhupada: Four billion. So
how they can calculate?
Paramahamsa: If they took a
photograph of the earth planet from up in space, they would probably
also say there is no life.
Devotee (3): They say because
the atmosphere is not like this planet, others cannot live there.
Prabhupada: Why not
atmosphere? The moon planet, there is a planet. There is space. There
is surface. There is dust. So why not atmosphere the same? It is made
of the same ingredients, earth, water, fire. Why do you say that is not
Devotee (3): They are saying
that it's too cold or too hot.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
That is here also. There are many cold places. Do they think that in
the cold places there is no life? All nonsense. And only nonsense will
believe them. I never believed it. Why? Here we see under this sand
there is life. The crabs, what is called? They live within, so many
hundreds of thousands. We have seen on the sand.
Indian man: And the polar
bears for cold season for living in mounds of snows and all.
Prabhupada: There are birds,
Prabhupada: Yes. Penguins
birds. There is life.
Bali-mardana: Seals, whales,
Prabhupada: There is life
everywhere. Bhagavad-gita says, sarva-gah. The
life is there everywhere. And moon planet, according to our Vedic
literature, that is one of the demigods' place. People live there daiva
age, ten thousand years.
Devotee (3): They will not
believe in the demigods...
Prabhupada: So I will not
believe them. That's all, finished. [laughter]
Devotee (3): They cannot see
Prabhupada: What can you see,
teeny eyes? What can you see? Can you see what is there on the other
side of the sea? Then does it mean there is nothing? Your nonsense
seeing. Why you are believing of seeing? Your seeing power is very,
very limited. Why do you believe in seeing? That is childish, "I cannot
see." What you can see? First of all, let us consider this point. You
cannot see anything.
Prabhupada, people will be very surprised to find out that the moon is
farther away from us than the sun when they read your..., when they
read Fifth Canto [referring to the Srimad-Bhagavatam,
Fifth Canto, which describes the universe].
Prabhupada: But at least,
they could not go there. Otherwise, why they are giving up this job?
They could not go there. That's a fact. Their plan was to... They were
selling land even on the moon planet.
Ambarisa: Selling land on the
Prabhupada: Yes. [laughter]
Srutakirti: They were selling
airline tickets also.
Prabhupada: Ah, yes.
[laughter] Just see, route. Pan American, yes. They sold so many
tickets. Such fools there are.
Bali-mardana: In New York
sometimes people sell new immigrants the Brooklyn Bridge.
Prabhupada: And Moscow Sea.
They pitched one flag in the moon planet and named Moscow Sea. Yes.
Indian man: Just like you
said that this moon and other planets are also made of these five
elements—earth, water, fire, ether—they brought a rock from there. So
they are accepting that the moon is made of those elements also. But
they are not accepting that life is there.
Prabhupada: No, they'll not
accept. Therefore... therefore fools. Why? The circumstance is the
same. Why there should be no life? That is foolishness. We have got
experience. As soon as there is water, there is life. As soon as there
is land, there is life. As soon as there is air, there is life. So
where is life? No life.
Devotee (3): They may agree
in undeveloped species, but as far as higher forms of life, they will
not agree, such as humans or demigods.
Prabhupada: No, that also we
cannot agree. If there are lower species, there must be higher species.
As we see here is dog also, man also, higher species, lower species,
why not there? They can talk all nonsense, but a nonsense will believe.
No sane man will believe.
So the Russians and Americans are going to meet in the space?
Prabhupada: What is the idea?
Ambarisa: It's a diplomatic
move. They feel it will make friendly relationships between the two
Indian man: They cannot meet
on the earth and they are going to meet on the... [laughter]
Prabhupada: So I am the only
man in the world challenging that "You have not gone to the moon
Harikesa: Is it possible
there's some difference as to the definition of what the moon planet
is? They will say that the moon planet is that planet out there. Do we
agree? At night?
Prabhupada: What is your
definition? First of all let me hear.
Harikesa: I'm still wondering
Prabhupada: We have got our
Harikesa: What do we call
those planets that rotate around Jupiter and Saturn and... They will
say those are also moons.
Prabhupada: Yes. Different
planets, different position. Just like this sun planet is fiery. There
is fire. Similarly, in moon planet there is fire, but it is surrounded
by cold atmosphere. Therefore it is cooling.
Harikesa: So that's the
specific characteristic of this moon?
Prabhupada: Which moon? Yes,
Harikesa: Our moon.
Harikesa: So the other moons
that rotate around Saturn and Jupiter...
Prabhupada: Other moon? There
is no other moon.
Harikesa: So they're just
Paramahamsa: The moon is not
rotating around the earth. The moon is further away than the sun.
Harikesa: The moon is further
away than the sun. Wow! [laughs]
Harikesa: Why does it seem
like the moon is...
Prabhupada: Seen? Who has
seen it? First of all let me..., who has seen it? [Devotees are
Harikesa: There's nothing you
Ambarisa: Prabhupada, you
said the other day that pretty soon all these lies will be exposed.
Prabhupada: They are already
exposed because they have left that expedition. That means they are
hopeless. That is exposed. But foolish people will not ask them that
"Why you have stopped this expedition?" They will again go on bluffing,
and they will accept. That is the position. Now people should ask them,
"Why you have stopped moon expedition and Venus expedition? You
proposed you were going there, making arrangement. Why you have
stopped?" It is failure.
Harikesa: They might argue...
Prabhupada: What is the
argument? You have stopped. That is your failure, that's all. You can
argue to the laymen, foolish men, but we will say you have stopped;
therefore it is failure. All bogus propaganda is now stopped.
Devotee (3): They are saying
the moon isn't worth develop...
Prabhupada: Now they cannot
say anything because they are failure. Anything they say, that is all
foolishness. They cannot say anything. Once you are failure, you have
no value, anything you say.
Harikesa: I've heard the
argument that when they are going to the moon, they are always in
contact, bouncing off these sonar waves and radar waves off the moon's
surface, and when they are coming near, they can even see from their
little portholes the moon's surface, the same moon that they see on the
Prabhupada: They say all
nonsense. That's all. [chuckles] Why the earth is not brilliant at
night like the moon?
Bali-mardana: It depends on
where you are. It depends on where you are looking from.
Prabhupada: "Where you are"
Harikesa: They have pictures
from the moon taken of the earth.
Prabhupada: Pictures? First
of all you see. Then take picture. You cannot see.
Harikesa: They use all these
things to argue that they actually did go to the moon.
Prabhupada: What is the
meaning of argument if they have stopped? That is failure. Don't talk
nonsense anymore. Phalena parichiyate. By the result we have to
understand. Your result is you are failure. Then what is the use of
talking nonsense? Stop this nonsense.
Ambarisa: It's like five
years ago they declared a war on cancer, and they spent billions and
billions of dollars on it, and just the other day they now said that it
was a complete failure, that the disease has just kept on growing and
Prabhupada: Yes. You cannot
stop even cancer disease and you are controlling nature. Just see their
[?] false, puffed up. They cannot control one disease, and they are
going to control nature. We have to believe that.
Harikesa: He just told me I
was spaced out because I wasn't punching this in, but I'm still
astounded by the fact that the moon is further away than the sun. When
the devotees hear this tape, they're not going to believe it.
Prabhupada: Therefore they
could not go. I... First of all I said that they might have gone to the
Harikesa: Yes, the Fourth
Prabhupada: Yes. First of all
my conviction: they have gone nowhere. They have simply stayed in their
laboratory, that's all.
Indian man: Anyone can do
that, bring some pictures and bring a rock.
Prabhupada, I think somebody might have told you before, but there was
a big scandal right after the moon shot when they said they went to the
moon and..., that it was all staged in the desert of Arizona, that
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the
Purushottama heard that, he blooped. [Devotees continue laughing.]
Prabhupada: Yes. In 1968 I
was questioned by the reporters, "What is your opinion about this
moon?" "It is simply a waste of time and energy, that's all. It is all
false propaganda." I told to the reporter.
Harikesa: Actually, these
scientists and philosophers, they become very famous and popular by
coming up with some brand new theories. So why don't we widely
publicize our theories?
Devotee (3): [break] We can
give them real information about the moon from the Bhagavatam?
means knowledge. What is this? Some animal?
Paramahamsa: Fish. It has
those horns, spines, so that no one can bother it. Protection.
Paramahamsa: It's a porcupine
Srutakirti: They blow up like
a ball. When someone comes to them, they expand very large.
Paramahamsa: And their spines
stick out straight. It's very dangerous.
Srutakirti: It's twenty-five
Harikesa: Srila Prabhupada,
do we say that they've gone to Rahu simply to placate them?
Prabhupada: No, accidentally
they went to Rahu. Maybe. That is also not...
Indian man: There is question
whether they have gone at all outside this atmosphere of earth.
Prabhupada: Yes. They haven't
gone to moon planet, that is my... [break] ...why they will give it up?
That is the proof. America was found by Columbus. So many people came
from Europe and utilized it. So if they would have gone to moon planet,
they would have utilized it. But they have not gone. That is the fact.
Paramahamsa: That was their
original proposal, that they can utilize it, make colonies there.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Yes.
Devotee (3): They stopped
moon exploration, because they thought that we cannot use the moon like
Columbus, they used America.
Prabhupada: That is your
Paramahamsa: They say it's
too much like the desert.
Harikesa: That's because they
were in the desert. [laughs]
Prabhupada: In the desert you
can grow so many nice dates, you know that? You cannot say in the
desert there is no...
Paramahamsa: Oh, yes. Arabia
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. In the
desert nice watermelon will grow. Yes. Nice dates. So people go there,
take the dates and take the watermelon. Krishna has provided food even
Harikesa: Would one see gross
form on a subtle planet?
Harikesa: Like the moon
planet is heavenly planet. They're supposed to have subtle bodies
there. So would there be any gross forms?
Prabhupada: Why subtle body?
That is material body.
Harikesa: So we would not be
able to see any traces of a civilization?
Prabhupada: There is
civilization. You have not gone there, rascal. You are simply
imagining. [Devotees laugh] There is civilization. First thing is, you
rascal, you did not go. You are talking only nonsense. That's it.
Paramahamsa: What about the
Rahu planet, that's a hellish planet?
Prabhupada: Yes. They might
have gone to that hellish planet. That's all.
Bali-mardana: No wonder they
Paramahamsa: That seems more
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes!
Bali-mardana: They were not
qualified to go to the moon, so Krishna sent them there.
Prabhupada: Yes, they are not
qualified. Even in this planet, unless one is bona fide, he is not
allowed to enter America. How you can go to the moon planet? That is
Harikesa: Some of the
astronauts became very religious after they supposedly went.
Prabhupada: Yes, they are
intelligent, that "This is all nonsense. Real thing is God." That is...
They come to their senses. They are intelligent. [break, Prabhupada
gets into the car and continues to speak:] ...real business is to
enhance your Krishna consciousness. These people, they are wasting time
simply to know something else. There is no limit. Klishyanti ye
kevala-bodha-labdhaye. What is moon planet? What business you
have got to know the...? Whatever is stated in the shastra,
accept it, that's all. What is the use of experiment and going there
and then again say, "Oh, it is all failure." Simply waste of time. The
arrangement is there by God. That's all. Spending so much money,
hard-earned money, unnecessarily and then say, "Oh, it is failure."
Paramahamsa: If they were a
little bit intelligent and had some knowledge of the Vedas,
they would learn that they could go there...
Prabhupada: The knowledge is
already there. Just like I am speaking. I am not a scientist. On the
knowledge of Vedas, that's all.
Paramahamsa: Yes. Just like
you have said in the Easy Journey to Other Planets, you
can go there by the mystic yoga process. You don't have to make
some space machine.
Ambarisa: The scientists want
to go there without performing any kind of austerities.
Prabhupada: But there is
Paramahamsa: Yeah, actually
they end up performing greater austerity.
Prabhupada: You have to earn
money with so much labor and spend it for nothing.
Paramahamsa: Billions of
dollars. Some of them are working like madmen.
Paramahamsa: They work all
day and most of the night.
Prabhupada: Moon expedition
is exposition of the scientists: useless. But these materialistic
persons will be cheated again and again. Punah punash
charvita-charvananam [Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.5.30].
The scientists will propose something else and they will accept. They
will never say that "You are failure in your moon expedition. Why you
are proposing again something nonsense?" They will never ask. They will
pay me, "Yes."
Ambarisa: The government
doesn't want the people in general to know that the scientists are
failures because they feel that the people will be put into a lot of
anxiety because of this. So they...
Prabhupada: No, they are
already in anxiety. This material world means anxiety. So many problems
there are. Sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat [SB 7.5.5].
Because they accepted this material world as all in all, samudvigna,
they are full of anxiety. Just like if you are on a boat and if you
know that after some hours the boat will be drowned, then can you
remain without anxiety?
Paramahamsa: They have some
relief, though, because they think that the scientists will be able to
Prabhupada: This is their
position. This is their position. Just like we are in this car, but we
know it, that any moment there can be accident. So how we can be
without anxiety? In the material world, on account of this material
condition, we are not going to stay here. There must be anxiety. But if
we close our eyes, that is different thing. Otherwise it is full of
anxiety. Krishna says, "If you want to be free from anxiety, then
surrender to Me. What I say, do it." That he will not do. They will
manufacture their own way of life. They must be in anxiety. They will
never hear what Krishna says. And our propaganda is that "Just you
become Krishna conscious, and you will be happy." This is our... That
they will not do.
Ambarisa: ...'60, 1960. When
did they start to go to the moon?
Ambarisa: I think President
Kennedy started the program in 1960.
Prabhupada: Sending dog first
Ambarisa: Yeah, mice and then
Prabhupada: They say the moon
is only desert. But here we find, within the desert, petrol. Why not
get petrol there and solve your power problem. Can I not raise this
Ambarisa: How would they get
it back from the moon?
Prabhupada: There will be
petrol. You take it.
Ambarisa: How would they get
it back here?
Prabhupada: As they are
coming. They are going and coming. So let them go, and if the surface
is desert, then find out oil within.
Paramahamsa: But their answer
would be: "Well, even if we found oil, it would be impossible to bring
it to the earth."
Indian man: They can make up
Prabhupada: No, you can make
devices, fill it up, and throw it. [laughter] ...mad, you should give
them mad suggestion. [laughter]