This is not science. But they are going on like that. Whole Darwin's theory is based on this, "Maybe millions of years past..."
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[Posted October 24, 2006]

Believe or Not Believe; Fact is Fact

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Founder-Acharya of the world-wide Hare Krishna Movement, Brahma Sampradaya Acharya

Srila Prabhupada

The New York Times October 22, 2006 - by JIM HOLT Beyond Belief

By Richard Dawkins.
406 pp. Houghton Mifflin Company

The nub of Dawkins’s consciousness-raising message is that to be an atheist is a “brave and splendid” aspiration. Belief in God is not only a delusion, he argues, but a “pernicious” one. On a scale of 1 to 7, where 1 is certitude that God exists and 7 is certitude that God does not exist, Dawkins rates himself a 6: “I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.”

Dawkins’s case against religion follows an outline that goes back to Bertrand Russell’s classic 1927 essay “Why I Am Not a Christian.” First, discredit the traditional reasons for supposing that God exists. (“God” is here taken to denote the Judeo-Christian deity, presumed to be eternal, all-powerful, all-good and the creator of the world.) Second, produce an argument or two supporting the contrary hypothesis, that God does not exist. Third, cast doubt on the transcendent origins of religion by showing that it has a purely natural explanation. Finally, show that we can have happy and meaningful lives without worshiping a deity, and that religion, far from being a necessary prop for morality, actually produces more evil than good. The first three steps are meant to undermine the truth of religion; the last goes to its pragmatic value.

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Science of God

Globalization in the face of Disparity by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Srimad-Bhagavatam is the transcendental science not only for knowing the ultimate source of everything but also for knowing our relation with Him and our duty toward perfection of the human society on the basis of this perfect knowledge. It is powerful reading matter in the Sanskrit language, and it is now rendered into English elaborately so that simply by a careful reading one will know God perfectly well, so much so that the reader will be sufficiently educated to defend himself from the onslaught of atheists. Over and above this, the reader will be able to convert others to accepting God as a concrete principle. more
Maybe ... Perhaps ... I think ....
Conversation with disciples, October 9, 1975, Durban, S. Africa

Prabhupada: Why we should waste our time talking with such foolish men? "I don't believe." No, what... You believe or not believe; fact is fact. You are going to be old man. If you say "I don't believe," then is that a very good proposition? It does not depend on your believing or not believing. The nature's course will take place. Prakriteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvashah [Bhagavad-gita 3.27]. That will go on. What is there in your believing and not believing? If you keep yourself in such darkness that "If you believe, then it is fact," then you are a fool, rascal. If you depend only on your belief, then you are a fool. What is the meaning of your belief? "I believe if I touch fire it will not burn." Will this belief protect me? You touch fire; it will burn. You believe or not believe. What is this argument, "We don't believe"? This is going on. If nature's law is that you must die, then if you believe, "No, I'll not die," will that belief protect you? You have to submit to the nature's law. Why don't you understand this? You are talking of "believe and not believe." Whole world is going on in this way: "We think," "I suppose," "Perhaps," "I believe," like this. Where is science? Science does not depend on your "belief, not belief, supposing, perhaps." This is not science. But they are going on like that. Whole Darwin's theory is based on this, "Maybe millions of years past..." We want perfect knowledge, not such, what is called, samshayam. Therefore Krishna says, asamshayam, "without any doubt." That is knowledge. And samagram, "complete." So if we have got the chance of knowing complete, without any doubt, so why shall I go to you, rascal? Your knowledge is based on "perhaps, maybe." I will have to go somewhere to take knowledge, so why not go to Krishna, where the knowledge is complete and without any doubt? Why shall I go to you, you rascal? You simply say "maybe, perhaps, I think." What is the use of this knowledge? We don't accept. You cannot say that "You are right; I am wrong" because you are also going to somebody to get knowledge, I am also going to somebody to get knowledge. So here it assured, that "complete knowledge without any doubt." But you have no such confidence. Am I right or not?

As sure as death
Garden conversation, June 25, 1975, Los Angeles

Prabhupada: If the tenant thinks that "This apartment is mine, I am owner," then he is wrong. If he knows perfectly well that it belongs to the landlord, "I have given for use," then it is knowledge.

Dr. Wolf: Srila Prabhupada, and the tenant can be easily evicted.

Prabhupada: Yes. Evicted. At that time he knows the owner. [laughter] When he is kicked out. That is stated also in the Bhagavad-gita. Mrityuh sarva-harash chaham [Bhagavad-gita 10.34]. Those who are not believing in God, to them God will come one day as death, "Now believe Me. Get out!" Finished. All your pride finished. Your pride, your property, your family, your bank balance, your skyscraper building—all taken away. "Finished. Get out." This is God. Now understand God? To believe or not believe, God will come one day. He will take you, take your everything, and "Get out!" That is God. You believe or not believe. It doesn't matter. The same example, the tenant may not believe the landlord, but when the landlord will come with court's order, "Get out," then you have to go out. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, that "Those who are not believer in God, to them I come as death and take away everything, finished." That one has to believe, "Yes, as sure as death." Then God is sure. You may challenge so long you have got little life for a few years, [laughter] but God will come and drive you away from your present pride, prestigious position, "Get out." So unless one is madman, he cannot say, "There is no God." Anyone who denies the existence of God, he is a madman.

Dr. Wolf: Prabhupada, wouldn't it be better to say he is blind, he is stupid?

Prabhupada: Yes, the same thing. Mad is the sum total of all stupidity. [laughter] When I say mad, it is the sum total of all kinds of stupidity.

But what is the catalyst for the chance combination?
Bhagavad-gita As It Is, Chapter 16: The Divine and Demoniac Natures
They say that this world is unreal, that there is no foundation and that there is no God in control. It is produced of sex desire, and has no cause other than lust. (16.8)

The demoniac conclude that the world is phantasmagoria. There is no cause, no effect, no controller, no purpose: everything is unreal. They say that this cosmic manifestation arises due to chance material actions and reactions. They do not think that the world was created by God for a certain purpose. They have their own theory: that the world has come about in its own way and that there is no reason to believe that there is a God behind it. For them there is no difference between spirit and matter, and they do not accept the Supreme Spirit. Everything is matter only, and the whole cosmos is supposed to be a mass of ignorance. According to them, everything is void, and whatever manifestation exists is due to our ignorance in perception. They take it for granted that all manifestation of diversity is a display of ignorance. Just as in a dream we may create so many things, which actually have no existence, so when we are awake we shall see that everything is simply a dream. But factually, although the demons say that life is a dream, they are very expert in enjoying this dream. And so, instead of acquiring knowledge, they become more and more implicated in their dreamland. They conclude that as a child is simply the result of sexual intercourse between man and woman, this world is born without any soul. For them it is only a combination of matter that has produced the living entities, and there is no question of the existence of the soul. As many living creatures come out from perspiration and from a dead body without any cause, similarly, the whole living world has come out of the material combinations of the cosmic manifestation. Therefore material nature is the cause of this manifestation, and there is no other cause. They do not believe in the words of Krishna in Bhagavad-gita : mayadhyakshena prakritih suyate sa-characharam. "Under My direction the whole material world is moving." In other words, amongst the demons there is no perfect knowledge of the creation of this world; every one of them has some particular theory of his own. According to them, one interpretation of the scriptures is as good as another, for they do not believe in a standard understanding of the scriptural injunctions.

Whose nature?
Morning walk, April 28, 1973, Los Angeles

Prabhupada: They do not know superior energy. They, they simply analyze the material energy, just you are doing. You do not know. The scientists, they do not know that there is spirit soul. Is it? Do they know?

Svarup Damodar: No.

Prabhupada: So similarly the sankhya philosophy also, they do not know what is spirit soul. Simply they're analyzing the material.

Svarup Damodar: So just the creative material elements?

Prabhupada: Yes. Material elements are not creative. Creative is the soul. Just like you make something with matter. Matter does not create itself. You living entity, you take them, hydrogen, oxygen, mix them, and becomes water. So matter it, itself, has no creative energy. You keep here one bottle of hydrogen and... Will they make water? Will they make?

Svarup Damodar: Hydrogen, oxygen?

Prabhupada: Yes, if you keep here hydrogen bottle, oxygen. Will the combination come in contact?

Svarup Damodar: Not unless it is mixed.

Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore you require a superior energy. This is inferior energy, and the superior energy comes, mixes. Then the fact is there. The inferior energy has no power unless the superior energy tackles. Just like this sea will remain calm and quiet. But another superior, air, when it pushes, it becomes high waves. It has no power. Another superior... Similarly another superior, another superior, another superior. So ultimately Krishna, the most superior. This is research. These waves are not moving by itself. Although the vast mass of water is there. When the superior energy, air, pushes it, it becomes big waves.

Svarup Damodar: So the action of force is necessary?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarup Damodar: Force.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is some scientists' theory, Newton's? That originally there must be some pushing. What is it? Whose theory it is? To set in motion.

Devotee: Newton?

Prabhupada: I think Newton's.

Svarup Damodar: The Newton has the laws of motion.

Prabhupada: Motion. So one must give the motion. Then another motion, another motion, another motion. Just like big, big, that trucks, railway, trucks. The engine pushes one truck. Have you seen shunting? The... the truck pushes. Another truck, another, kat, kat, kat, kat, kat, kat, kat, kat. Like that.

Brahmananda: Shunting, yeah.

Prabhupada: So who is giving the pushing? The living entity, driver. A big truck is being pushed: kata kak kata kak kata kak kata kak, one after another. Similarly the whole creation, Krishna is giving the pushing. Then one after another, one after another, one after another working. You see. Mayadhyakshena prakritih suyate sa-characharam [Bhagavad-gita 9.10]. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita ... mayadhyakshena. Krishna gives the pushing first. Then everything comes, one after another. But His pushing capacity is so perfect that everything is coming out perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect. Just like Krishna says: bijo 'ham sarva-bhutanam [Bg 7.10]. "I am the seed of everything created." Now take the seed of the banyan tree. Krishna has created. He says, "I am the seed." Now you sow the seed. A big tree will come out. Big tree will come out. Not only big tree. Many millions of seeds will come out of it. And each seed, again big tree. So the original seed, Krishna, pushes. Then one after another, one after another, one after another... So you are simply observing when the things are coming into existence by such pushing. But you are trying out, trying to find out who is the original pusher. That you do not know. That you do not know. Who has originally pushed this energy? That you do not know.

Svarup Damodar: So the material elements...

Prabhupada: You are simply observing the immediate cause. You do not know what is the remote cause. There are two causes, immediate cause and remote cause. Another call: "Efficient cause and..."? The two words?

Brahmananda: Efficient cause is the ultimate.

Prabhupada: No, remote cause.

Svarup Damodar: The remote cause is Krishna.

Prabhupada: Yes. Sarva-karana-karanam [Brahma-samhita 5.1]. Vedic literature: sarva-karana-karanam. The cause of all causes. That is remote cause. Therefore if you understand the sarva-karana-karanam [Bs. 5.1], the cause of all causes, then you understand everything. Yasmin vijnate sarvam evam vijnatam bhavati. If you know the original cause, the later, subordinate causes, you know. Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti shabdyate [Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.11]. You do not know the original cause, and when we say... "We say" means when the Vedas says: "Here is the original cause," you won't take it. Although you are searching after the original cause. Is it not? But when Veda,... Veda means knowledge, perfect knowledge. But when gives you: "Here is the original cause." You won't take. You shall stick to your imperfect knowledge. This is your disease. Is it not a disease?

Svarup Damodar: Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes. You do not know what is the original cause, and if some person suggests... Some... Not ordinary persons. Authorized person. You won't accept.

Svarup Damodar: The scientists do not know that there are two types of energies.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Svarup Damodar: They do not know that there are two types of energies...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarup Damodar: ...inferior and the superior.

Prabhupada: Yes, yes. That they're actually seeing every day.

Svarup Damodar: Yes.

Prabhupada: Handling every day. Still they'll not. Dog's obstinacy. That's all. They're seeing practically, that the material energy cannot work independently unless the spiritual energy joins. So how they can expect the whole cosmic manifestation, which is matter only, has come out automatically? We are practically seeing, a very nice car, Cadillac. But if there is no driver, what is the use of that car? A computer machine. Unless the man knows how to work it, pushes the button, it does not work. So practically we are seeing that without superior energy, the material energy does not act. Still they'll not believe it. Therefore in this wonderful cosmic manifestation, there must be handling of a superior energy. And that they do not know. They are amazed with this material arrangement. Just like a foolish person is amazed by seeing the mechanical, big machine. So many parts. But another person knows that, however wonderful machine it may be, unless the operator comes and pushes the button, it will not work. This is intelligence. Therefore who is important? The operator or the machine? So we are concerned with the operator, Krishna, not with the machine. If you say: "How do you know that He's the operator?" He says: mayadhyakshena prakritih suyate sa-characharam [Bg. 9.10]. "Under My superintendence, the whole cosmic manifestation is working." The difference is you don't believe. I believe. That's all. I take it immediately: "Yes, Krishna is operating." Therefore I have no problem. Somebody's operating, that you have to accept. But you do not know who is that person. At least, we have got knowledge, here is the person. That's all. Now if you say: "No, Krishna is not the person," then you have to accept another person. So present him, that "Here is the person, not Krishna. Another..." That you cannot. So in the absence of your knowledge, you have to accept my proposal. [break]

Can you create a stem like this in your laboratory?

Svarup Damodar: That's not possible.

Prabhupada: No, no. But see how Krishna's energy is working. You cannot create even a few grains of sand, and you are claiming that: "We have become more than God." How foolishness it is.

Svarup Damodar: They will take the, the matter from Krishna, and they will manipulate, and they will claim that they have done it. For example, they can make some, some sands...

Prabhupada: That's all right. At least if you accept that "I have taken this matter from Krishna." That is also good. Just like we take. We take Krishna, from Krishna is coming everything. That's all.

Svarup Damodar: But they will not say that they are taking from Krishna. They'll say that they have created.

Prabhupada: How they have created? You take the sand and mix with some chemicals, make glass. So you have not created the sand. The chemicals, you have not created. You have taken from the earth. So where is your creation?

Svarup Damodar: They will say that: "I have taken from the nature."

Prabhupada: Eh? Nature? That means you have taken from somebody. You have not created. You have stolen. Thief you are. And we say: "Yes, you have taken from the nature, but every property of nature, that belongs to Krishna." Ishavasyam idam sarvam [Isho mantra 1]. Ishavasyam, it is all God's creation. And that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Yes... If one does not perform yajna, he's a thief. Yajna means acknowledging that things have been taken from Krishna. And we must satisfy Krishna. "Krishna, You have given so many things for our maintenance." This much acknowledgement Krishna wants. That's all. Otherwise, what He can expect from you? What you are in His presence? Prasada. Prasada means acknowledging: "Krishna, You have given us this foodstuff. So first of all You taste. Then we take." This much. Krishna's not eating. He's not hungry. He's eating. Although He's not hungry, He can eat the whole world. Again produce it, as it is. That is Krishna's power. Purnat purnam, purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavashishyate [Isho Invocation]. Krishna is so perfect, that you take from Krishna, whole Krishna's energy, still the original energy's there. That is conservation of energy.

Svarup Damodar: There is a very scientific journal called Nature, the title of the journal is called Nature. What they do is... Mostly they talk about the natural products like the plants, flowers, the natural living matters that we find. But they do not talk about God.

Prabhupada: So they...

Svarup Damodar: But they say about nature.

Prabhupada: Nature, that's all right. You are observing the plants are being produced by nature. But who has produced the nature? This is intelligence.

Svarup Damodar: They don't think about this.

Prabhupada: That is foolishness. Wherefrom the nature comes? As soon as we speak nature, then next question should be: "Whose nature?" Is it not? Just like I say: "It is my nature." You say: "It is my nature." Therefore as soon as you talk of nature, the next inquiry should be: "Whose nature?"

Karandhara: They don't want to think of that because they want to use it themselves.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Karandhara: They don't want to think...

Prabhupada: Nature means energy. What is the definition of nature?

Svarup Damodar: Somethings which are already existing.

Prabhupada: Yes, they're already existing. That's all right. But what is the nature's activities? It is some power. Is it not? So power means energy. As soon as you say energy, there must be some source of energy. Just like you say: electric energy. So there is source, the electric powerhouse. How can you deny it? Electricity's not coming automatically. You have to install powerhouse, machine, generating machine. Then the electricity will come. And the resident engineer. Who is the engineer? What is the machine? And then electricity, there is question of electricity.

Svarup Damodar: From Gita we find...

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Svarup Damodar: In the Gita, we find that...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarup Damodar: And the... "This material nature is working under My direction."

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes, as soon as you speak of energy, nature, there must be some background. Where is the source of this nature?

In the following excerpts, Srila Prabhupada takes the part of atheist and challenges his students to defeat him—and they fail the test!

Why shall I believe in God?
Morning walk with disciples, June 17, 1975, Honolulu

Prabhupada: Why shall I believe in God? What is the benefit? Work hard... Now, of course, I shall work hard; I will get money. That's all right. Why shall I believe in God?

Srutakirti: Because if you work hard and believe in God then He'll save you at death. By working hard, then you'll be saved.

Prabhupada: That's what the Communists say. They do not believe in God. So?

Harikesa: Believing in God makes it all worthwhile. It makes you feel better while you're working hard.

Prabhupada: Those who are atheists, they are also working hard. They are feeling nice by drinking. Why shall I believe in God? Let me drink.

Harikesa: Because they're being satisfied by sense gratification, but in...

Prabhupada: That's all right. Why shall I believe in God? Sense gratification is there. Why shall I believe in God?

Upendra: There has to be a certain amount of self-respect that the Christians give the people...

Prabhupada: Nobody respects. Nowadays, if somebody is religious, he is thought of as a fool. He's not...

Siddha-svarupa: Actually, because what you're saying is right, people are going away from religion. There is no use for it anymore.

Prabhupada: No religion. No, they do not know what is the meaning of religion. Therefore they create some religious system. They create: "Let me create something. After all, it is bluffing. So if I can..." Just like this, from India there are so many come. Here also there are many. They create some. It is... After all, it is bluffing. "So let me create something." Real business is to bluff and take money.

Bali-mardana: They like to make a show.

Prabhupada: That's all.

Bali-mardana: Even President Nixon he was having Bible meetings while he was cheating everyone. [Prabhupada chuckles.] [break]

Prabhupada: They think in, believe in God, and "There is no God; believe in God." Create some God and believe, that's all; finished. Therefore there are many, so many, religions.

Bali-mardana: Everyone has a tendency to worship something. If they don't worship Krishna, they will worship someone else. Like Mao or Lenin...

Prabhupada: One fashion is meditation. This fashion is very prominent. What meditation, they do not know.

Bali-mardana: They think that it is simply a...

Prabhupada: Sit down... I have seen meditation. [makes snoring sound] I have seen.

Without Krishna I am enjoying
Conversation with disciples, guests, October 29, 1975, Nairobi

Prabhupada: Prasadad bhagavat-prasadah. By pleasing the spiritual master, you please Krishna. That's nice. But why Krishna should be pleased? Why? What is the necessity of pleasing Krishna?

Devotee (1): To please the representative of Krishna.

Prabhupada: No, no, that is all right. Guru is representative of Krishna, but why one should bother himself for pleasing Krishna? Answer this.

Devotee (1): 'Cause our real position is to serve Krishna, and because we've fallen in this illusion of the material energy, so we forgot our position.

Prabhupada: We shall do it otherwise. Why shall I please Krishna? We are making scientific progress. What is the use of bringing God?

Devotee (2): Because we shall never become perfect or see the answer.

Prabhupada: That is begging the question.

Indian man (3): For spreading the name of the Krishna, in the world.

Prabhupada: No, no. It is not the question of guru. Guru is doing all right. Why you should be so much anxious and feel obligation to please Krishna?

Indian (4): Everybody has to serve somebody, so Krishna is the reservoir of all pleasure and everything exists from Him. So instead of serving anybody, we should serve the Krishna.

Prabhupada: That's all right. Without serving Krishna, I am getting pleasure by drinking wine. Why shall I...?

Cyavana: That pleasure will not last. That pleasure is only temporary.

Prabhupada: No, I will not also last. [laughter] That...

Cyavana: But to accept such a mentality, we say that is third class. Actually our life is eternal.

Prabhupada: That is your statement, "third class," but my statement is: It is first class. [laughter]

Harikesa: Is it first class if every time you are going to eat something nice I was standing over you with a stick, and as soon as you took, I would beat you? So every time you have some enjoyment, there is some concurrent suffering. Like you enjoy the wine, but then you have a headache, hangover. You enjoy. Then you get sick.

Cyavana: Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gita in the Tenth Chapter, He says, "For those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I will give the understanding by which they can come to Me." So this is our desire.

Prabhupada: I don't want to go.

Cyavana: You don't want to go to Krishna?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Harikesa: All right, suffer. [laughter]

Prabhupada: I don't suffer. [laughter] I am enjoying.

Harikesa: You are enjoying death and old age?

Prabhupada: Yes, you are putting upon me some impression, "suffering," but I am enjoying.

Harikesa: Your knee is hurt. Is that enjoying?

Prabhupada: That I am curing. That is also nice. [laughter]

Harikesa: But soon the whole thing will be finished. You will not... No one enjoys death. No one will take voluntarily a death pill.

Prabhupada: Nobody of you could answer the question. Now I give you again chance to answer this question very properly. Why one should be obliged to please Krishna? Why?

Harikesa: Just like this finger. Its position is to serve the body. Just like the stomach. Everyone may be jealous of the stomach and not want to feed the stomach, but if all the hands and the legs and the mouth went on strike not to feed the stomach...

Prabhupada: This is the right answer.

Harikesa: ...they would ultimately be destroyed.

Prabhupada: This is right answer, that you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. You must serve the stomach. Otherwise your position is very precarious. That is the answer. If the finger thinks that "I shall remain independent and be happy," that is not possible. The stomach must be supplied food, and then all the parts of the body, they'll be happy. That is the point. So you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. Similarly, Krishna is the central enjoyer. Bhoktaram yajna-tapasam sarva-loka-maheshvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He is the center. Just like ordinarily this African state, if you do not satisfy the state or the president, then you cannot remain happy. Independently you cannot be happy. We require in every step ... We have come to this park because state is cooperating. In the morning we shall come, and they have prepared it nicely. We are not going to the jungle. So if we actually want happiness we must cooperate with the state. This is crude example. Similarly, if our ultimate aim is to become happy, then we must cooperate with Krishna. This is obligatory. You cannot escape it. Then you'll be unhappy. This is the... Stomach. Pranopaharach cha yathendriyanam. Therefore the natural process is you pick up... A child even. He picks up some something, but he does not put anywhere—immediately in the mouth. Why he does not bring it in the ear? Why? The child immediately takes it. He does not know what is what. But the nature is that as soon as he captures something, even he does not know... Because his position is eating, he knows this much, sense gratification. Other senses are not yet developed. So the child, he knows taste with tongue and eats. That he knows. So immediately anything he captures, he brings to the mouth, naturally. He hasn't got to be educated. So our position is like that. We being part and parcel of Krishna, our natural tendency is to serve Krishna. Natural tendency. It is not artificial. When you forget Krishna, that is artificial. So our normal life means to love Krishna, to serve Krishna. That is our normal life. Without serving Krishna our life is abnormal, madman's life. Therefore Krishna says... When you forget Krishna, He comes to preach the normal life. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. This is normal life. So Krishna does not require your help. He can create many helpers. But for your good Krishna comes, that "If you want normal, happy life, then surrender unto Me." This is the proposal. Therefore the whole Bhagavad-gita, all Vedic knowledge, is there. We have forgotten our position. Our posit..., normal position, is to love and serve Krishna. Therefore anadi bahir mukha jiva Krishna bhuli gela ataeva Krishna veda purana karila. Because we do not know... From time immemorial we cannot ascertain when this incidents have happened, to forget Krishna, but it is practically... Life after life, life after life, we are changing body, but forgetting Krishna. So here, in the human form of life, there is the opportunity to revive our original position, and we require the help of knowledge, perfect knowledge. And that is there in the Vedas. Atha eva krishna veda purana karila. If we don't take advantage, although we have got... We can read Bhagavad-gita, and if we don't take advantage of Bhagavad-gita and go on whimsically, then we'll suffer. You cannot non-cooperate with Krishna as you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. This is the... You must. There is no question of alternative. You may, may not know. It is not. You must. This is the position. Otherwise you'll never be happy. And happiness is your aim of life. Atyantika-duhkha-nivrittih. We are... I'm suffering from this knee's trouble because I am in this material world. I have got this material body. So atyantika-duhkha-nivrittih means no more material world, no more material body. And for that purpose we have to cooperate with Krishna. Otherwise it is not possible. Any question about this? Just like these African women. They are going to work. There is no question of no work. They must. Otherwise they cannot eat. Anyone, if by working his livelihood is going on, how he can non-cooperate? This is not possible.

Brahmananda: The thief is also eating.

Prabhupada: That is Krishna's grace, just like the government gives the prisoners also to eat. But they are condemned. And government's grace that government provides all necessities. If a prisoner is sick, he is given the hospital facility. But he is restricted free movement, that much. Otherwise government gives the same facilities within the prison house and without the... The standard may be little different. Eko yo bahunam yo vidadhati kaman. He satisfies... Why this human being prisoner? Even He is giving food to the animals, to the birds, beasts, everyone. Noncooperation cannot be. Krishna says, bijo 'ham sarva-bhutanam [Bhagavad-gita 7.10]. Now, you have to grow trees, plants and vegetables for your eating. So that you cannot have without cooperation with Krishna. Krishna gives all the seeds. Bijo 'ham. You cannot manufacture the seed. He gives the seed. You work little, sow it and get the result. But without cooperation with Krishna, how can you get the seed? Then where is your food? No food. You must take... "God, give us our daily bread." Krishna gives the seeds, and you sow it and get the fruit or grains. Then you can exist. Even if you are animal-eater, the animal must also come from Krishna. You cannot manufacture the animal. That is also coming from Krishna. Bijo 'ham sarva-bhutanam [Bg 7.10]. The animal is produced by father and mother, but the seed is given in the semina by Krishna. And then animal is produced. So how you can non-cooperate Krishna? You have to cooperate.

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