is Krishna the greatest scientist?
Prabhupada: Because He knows
everything. A scientist means one who knows a subject matter
thoroughly. He's scientist. Krishna, He knows everything.
Bob: You said... I told you I
teach science. You had said something about teaching, or teaching of
Prabhupada: Yes. Teaching,
unless you have got perfect knowledge how you can teach? That is our
Bob: Without perfect
knowledge, though, you can teach what knowledge you have.
Prabhupada: No, that is
cheating. That is not teaching, that is cheating. Just like the
scientists said, "There was a chunk, and the creation took place,
perhaps..." What is this? Simply cheating. It is not teaching, it is
Bob: Let me say what else you
said this morning that was interesting. [Addressing the others present]
I asked him [Srila Prabhupada] about miracles, and Prabhupada said that
only a fool would believe in miracles because... Let us say you are a
child and an adult lifts this table. That's a miracle. Or you're a
chemist, and you combine acid and base and make smoke, an explosion or
whatever. To somebody ignorant, that's a miracle. And for everything
there's a process. And so when you see a miracle, it's just ignorance
of the process. So that only a fool would believe in miracles, and, you
correct me if I say wrong...
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Bob: ...that when Jesus came,
the people then were somewhat more ignorant and needed miracles as aid.
Was that... I wasn't sure if that's quite what you said.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes, yes.
Miracle means ignorant.
Bob: I had asked this in
relation to all the miracle men you hear about in India.
Prabhupada: Krishna is the
highest miracle man.
Prabhupada: That is stated by
Bob: Without perfect
knowledge, can I not teach some things? For example, I may...
Prabhupada: You can teach up
to that, which point you know.
Bob: But should not claim to
teach more than I know.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is
Yasodanandan: In other words,
you can't teach the truth...
Yasodanandan: ...you can't
teach the truth with partial knowledge.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is not
possible by any human being. Because any human being, his senses are
imperfect. So how he can teach perfect knowledge? Just like you see the
sun like a disc. You have no means to approach the sun. If you say, "We
can see the sun by telescope and this and that," that is also made by
you. And you are imperfect, your instrument is imperfect. Because that
telescope you can say that you are seeing, but that machine is made by
you, and you are imperfect. How your machine can be perfect? Therefore
your knowledge of the sun is imperfect. So you don't teach about sun
unless you have got perfect. That is cheating.
Bob: But what about to teach
that it is supposed that the sun is 93,000,000 miles away?
Prabhupada: As soon as you
say "it is supposed," it is not scientific.
Bob: Yeah, but I think almost
all of science, then, is not scientific. Because all science...
Prabhupada: That is the point.
Bob: Oh, I see. Is based on,
you know, suppositions of this or that. So imperfect knowledge may be
Prabhupada: They're teaching
imperfect. Just like they are advertising so much about moon. Do you
think the knowledge is perfect?
Bob: What do you think is the
proper duty of the teacher? What is the proper duty of the teacher in
society? Let's say a science teacher. What should he be doing in the
Prabhupada: Classroom, you
should simply teach about Krishna.
Bob: He should not teach
Prabhupada: No, that will
include everything. But his aim should be how to know Krishna.
Bob: Can a scientist teach
the science of combining acid and alkaline and this kind of science
with Krishna as its object?
Prabhupada: How it can be?
Bob: If you... When one
studies science, one finds general tendencies of nature, and these
general tendencies of nature point to a controlling force.
Prabhupada: That I was
explaining the other day. Where? In Madras, or where? "Who has supplied
Syamasundar: Ah, in Madras.
Prabhupada: I asked one
chemist that according to chemical formula, hydrogen and oxygen mixed,
it becomes water. Is it not?
Bob: That's true.
Prabhupada: Now, this vast
water in the Atlantic Ocean and Pacific Ocean, how much chemicals were
Bob: How much?
Bob: Oh, I don't know.
Prabhupada: How many tons?
Prabhupada: So who supplied
Bob: This was supplied by God.
Prabhupada: Somebody must
Prabhupada: So that is... You
can teach like that.
Bob: And should one bother
teaching that if you combine acid and alkaline...
Prabhupada: The same thing,
the same thing, that now we have to..., that... There are so many
effervescence. So, who is performing it? Who is supplying the acid and
Bob: So this comes from the
same source as the water.
Prabhupada: Yes. Water you
cannot manufacture unless you have got hydrogen and oxygen. So here is
a vast... Not only this Atlantic or Pacific, there are millions of
planets, and there are millions of Atlantic and Pacific oceans. So who
created this water with hydrogen and oxygen, and how it was supplied?
That is our question. Somebody must have supplied; otherwise how it
came to existence?
Bob: But should it also be
taught how you make water from hydrogen and oxygen? The procedure of
burning them together, should this also be taught? That if you burn
hydrogen and oxygen together...
Prabhupada: That is secondary.
Bob: Excuse me?
Prabhupada: That is
secondary. That is not very difficult. Just like this Malati made puri.
So there is flour and there is ghee, and she made puri, but
unless there is ghee and flour, where is the chance of making puri?
In the Bhagavad-gita there is this, "Water, earth, air,
fire, they are made of My energy."
Bob: Made of, what is that?
Prabhupada: "My energy."
Prabhupada: What is your
body? This external body, that is your energy. Do you know that? The
body is made out of your own energy. Just like I am eating.
Prabhupada: So I am creating
some energy, and therefore my body is maintained.
Bob: Oh, I see.
Prabhupada: So therefore your
body is made out of your energy.
Bob: But when you eat the
food, there is energy from the sun in the food...
Prabhupada: No, that... I am
giving the example, I am creating some energy by digesting the food and
that is maintaining my body. Therefore my body is maintained by my
energy. If your energy supply is not proper, then your body becomes not
in proper order. Therefore the conclusion is that your body is made out
of your own energy. Similarly, why this big gigantic body, universes,
is not made of Krishna's energies? How can you deny? As your body is
made out of your energy, similarly, the universal body must be made by
somebody's energy. That is Krishna.
Bob: I have to think about
that. I have to think about it to follow that.
Prabhupada: Why follow? It is
a fact. [Bob laughs] Your hairs are growing daily. Why? Because you
have got some energy.
Bob: The energy I obtain from
Prabhupada: Somehow or other,
you have obtained that energy. And through that energy your hairs are
growing. So if your body is manufactured by your energy, similarly, the
whole gigantic manifestation is made of God's energy. It is a fact it
is not your energy.
Bob: Yeah. O.K. I see that.
Syamasundar: Just like,
aren't the planets in this universe the sun's energy, a product of the
Prabhupada: Yes. But who
produced the sun? That is Krishna's energy. Because it is heat, and
Krishna says, bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh [Bhagavad-gita
7.4]. Analah, analah, heating. "That is My energy." The sun is
representation of the heating energy of Krishna. It is not your energy.
You cannot say that "The sun is made by me." But somebody must have
made. And Krishna says. So we believe therefore Krishna. Therefore we
Prabhupada: Yes. Our
knowledge is perfect. You cannot say... If I say that "Heat is energy
of Krishna," you cannot defy it. Because it is not your energy. Just
like in your body there is some certain extent of heat. Similarly...
Heat is somebody's body's energy. And who is that body? That is
Krishna. Krishna says, "Yes, it is My energy." So my knowledge is
perfect. Therefore I am the greatest scientist. Because I take the
version of the greatest scientist, therefore I am greatest scientist. I
may be fool personally, but because I take the knowledge from the
greatest scientist, I am greatest scientist. I have no difficulty.
Bob: Excuse me?
Prabhupada: I have no
difficulty to become the greatest scientist. Because I take the
knowledge from the greatest scientist. "This earth, water, fire, air,
ether, mind, intelligence and ego—they are My eight separated
energies." [Bhagavad-gita 7.4]
Bob: They're separate
Separate, no? Just like this milk. What is this milk? The separated
energy of the cow. Is it not? It is the manifestation of the separated
energy of cow.
Syamasundar: Is it like a
Bob: So what is the
significance of this energy being separated from Krishna?
Prabhupada: Separated means
this is made out of the body of the cow, but is is not cow. That is
Bob: So this earth and all is
made out of Krishna, but is not Krishna?
Prabhupada: It is not
Krishna. Or you can say, Krishna and not Krishna simultaneously. That
is our philosophy. One and different. You cannot say different because
these things without Krishna has no existence. At the same time you
cannot say, "Then let me worship water. Why Krishna?" That the
pantheists, they say, that "Because everything is God, so whatever I
take, that is God worship." The Rama-Krishna Mission says like that.
But that's wrong.
Bob: The Rama-Krishna Mission
Prabhupada: Yes. And the
Mayavadis. "Because everything is made of God, therefore everything is
God." That is their... But our philosophy is everything is God, but not
Bob: So what on earth is God?
Is there anything on earth that is God?
Prabhupada: Yes. Because it
is made out of the energy of God. But [that] does not mean that
anything you worship, you worship God.
Bob: So what is on earth,
though, is not maya. It is...
Bob: It means energy.
Prabhupada: Yes. Maya,
another meaning: illusion. So foolish persons, the energy is accepted
as the energetic. That is maya. Just like sunshine. Sunshine
enters your room. Sunshine is the energy of the sun. But because the
sunshine has entered in your room you cannot say the sun has entered.
If sun enters, then your room and yourself, everything will be finished
immediately. [laughter] You'll not have the leisure to understand that
sun has entered. Is it not?
Bob: It is so.
Prabhupada: But you cannot
say that sunshine is not sun. But without sun, where is the sunshine?
So you cannot say sunshine is not sun. But at the same time it is not
sun. It is sun and not sun, both. That is our philosophy. Achintya-bhedabheda,
inconceivable. In the material science you cannot conceive that a thing
simultaneously positive and negative. That you cannot think. That is
inconceivable energy. And because everything is Krishna's energy,
Krishna can manifest Himself from any energy, and act. Therefore, when
we worship Krishna made of something of earth, water, or something like
that, that is Krishna. You cannot say it is not Krishna. When you
worship this metal form of Krishna, that is Krishna. That's a fact.
Because metal is energy of Krishna. Therefore it is non-different from
Krishna. And Krishna's so powerful that He can present Himself fully in
His energy. So this Deity worship is not heathenism. It is actually
worshiping God, provided you know the process.
Bob: If you know the process,
then the Deity becomes Krishna?
Prabhupada: Yes. Not becomes,
it [is] Krishna.
Bob: The Deity is Krishna.
Bob: But only if you know the
process of it.
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like
this electric wire is Krishna..., er, is electricity. One who knows the
process he can derive electricity out of it.
Syamasundar: Otherwise it's
Prabhupada: That's all.
Bob: So if I build a statue
of Krishna, it is not Krishna. But if I, unless I know the process...
Prabhupada: No, it is
Krishna. But you have to know the process that it is Krishna. It is
Bob: It is not just earth and
mud, it is Krishna...
Prabhupada: No, earth...
Earth has no separate existence without Krishna. Krishna says, "It's my
energy." You cannot separate the energy and the energetic. It is not
possible. You cannot separate heat from fire. But fire is different
from the heat. And heat is different from the fire. You are taking
heat, that does not mean you are touching fire. Fire, in spite of
expanding heat, it keeps its identity. Similarly, Krishna by His
different energies creating everything, He remains Krishna. The
Mayavadi philosophers, they think, "If Krishna is everything, then
Krishna's separate identity is not there." That is material thinking.
Just like drinking this milk, so little, little, when I finish, there
is no more milk. It has gone to my belly. Krishna is not like that.
Because He's omnipotent, we are utilizing His energy continually, but
still He's there, present. Just like a man begetting children
unlimitedly, but the man is there. Crude example. But not that because
he has produced hundreds of children, therefore he is finished. So
similarly, God or Krishna, in spite of His unlimited number of
children, He's there. Purnasya purnam adaya purnam eva
avashishyate [Ishopanishad Invocation]. This is
Krishna consciousness. Krishna is never finished. So powerful,
therefore He is attractive. This is one side of the display of
Krishna's energies. Similarly, He has got unlimited energies. This
study of Krishna's energy is only one side, one portion only. So in
this way if you go on studying Krishna, that is Krishna consciousness.
It is not a bogus thing, that "maybe," "perhaps not." Absolutely. It is.
Syamasundar: And the study
itself is never finished.
Prabhupada: No. How can you?
Krishna has unlimited energy.