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Professor
Pater Porsch: There are thousands and millions
of...
Prabhupada:
That's all right. Here is one name. Why don't
you take
it?
Professor
Pater Porsch: No. I say millions of names. I'm
looking
for the name
and...
Prabhupada:
Yes. But if I've given you the name why don't
you
take it?
Professor
Pater Porsch: Because I'm not convinced that is
the
right name.
Prabhupada:
That is your misfortune. [everyone laughs]
That is
your misfortune. Yes.
Professor
Pater Porsch: God does not have a name for me, but Jesus
gave me the nature.
Prabhupada:
How
can I help? You do not know
the name, if somebody is informing you, "Here is the name," he still
will not take. That is your misfortune. What can be done? A
misfortunate man cannot be helped. That's right. So here is the
authority. Satatam kirtayanto mam.
Satsvarupa:
satatam
kirtayanto mam
yatantash cha
dridha-vratah
namasyantash cha
mam bhaktya
nitya-yukta upasate [Bhagavad-gita 9.14]
"Always chanting My
glories, endeavoring with great determination,
bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship me with
devotion."
[break]
Professor
Pater Porsch: ...and when I was in Africa I saw
the
people are
looking for the name and chanting like you chant. But they have a
complete different idea of thought. My question is how can I know what
is the right thing? From where do you know this?
Prabhupada:
But, as a human being you can study what you
have seen
in Africa and where you are seeing here. There's much difference.
Professor
Pater Porsch: I mean, my question only I saw the
people singing...
Prabhupada:
No, just like these boys and girls, they are
coming
from Jewish group or Christian group. They have not come from India.
Now how they're chanting and enjoying—you can see.
Professor
Pater Porsch: No, I mean the intention was the
same.
They're looking
for [indistinct]
Prabhupada:
[indistinct] ...you have to see the resultant
study.
Dr. P. J. Saher:
I was quite surprised.
Prabhupada:
Yes. And ask them to induce to chant any other
name.
They'll not do that. Phalena parichiyate, you have to
study by
the result of the activity, not theoretical.
Dr. P. J. Saher:
Yes. That would be the criterion for me.
Prabhupada:
Yes.
Dr. P. J. Saher:
Yes, that's the same what the Christian
criterion when
St. Paul speaks. They had the same...
Prabhupada:
No. We say that you follow Christian
principle, you
become perfect. But the difficulty is nobody follows anything. He
follows his own opinion. That's all. "In my opinion." What you are,
your opinion? That is the difficulty. Yes you can take.
Vedavyasa:
Srila Prabhupada, in the Bible there
are a lot of statements regarding chanting, instructions that people
should chant the holy name of God. Like in the Old Testament it says
from the morning to evening you should chant the holy name of God.
Prabhupada:
Yes. That is the business in this age. Chant
the holy
name of God.
Professor
Dürckheim: Whatever you do, do in the name
of Jesus Christ,
the Bible...
Prabhupada:
That's all right. You take this in the name of
Jesus
Christ.
Hansadutta:
Prabhupada, would you like to take your prasadam
now?
Prabhupada:
Not now. Later. The simplest method: chant the
holy
name of the Lord. That's all.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
Should this chanting be loud? Or can
it also be
half loud, whisper or silently, mentally? Does it play any difference?
Does it make any difference?
Prabhupada:
If you chant loudly then others can hear. They
also
take benefit.
Vedavyasa:
Should we translate?
Prabhupada:
Hm?
Vedavyasa: Should we translate?
Prabhupada:
Yes. Even the birds and beasts they
will hear
and be benefited. Therefore loud chanting is recommended. So
that even the birds, beasts, trees, plants, they can hear.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
I seldom saw so many happy faces as
today, this
evening, below.
Prabhupada:
Yes. That is the case. In America also the
ladies and
gentlemen ask them, "Are you Americans?" Because they do not see
Americans with such nice face. One Christian priest—I was going from
Los Angeles to Hawaii—so he came to talk with me. He inquired "Swamiji,
how is that your disciples look so bright?" He inquired. Yes.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
Without drugs.
Prabhupada:
Yes. And one Christian priest he showed one
pamphlet
that these boys, they're our boys but before this they're not coming to
the church. They do not want to ask anything about God. Now they're mad
after God. How is it? He admitted, "They're our men." And I give you
another example. In our Los Angeles temple—this was a church, big
church—but it was not going on. It was being closed. And it was sold to
us. And now you go and see there is daily thousands of... the same men,
the same place. The crowd is so... Why? I have not brought all these
men from India. Judge. Unless it is something sublime, how they're
accepting it? And they're all young boys. Not that they have become
old, therefore they're seeking after God. [everyone laughs] And young
men have got so many aspirations, they go to the restaurant to smoke,
to enjoy girlfriend, boyfriend, these... They have given up everything.
Professor
Dürckheim: And they are working in the
society, they are
working...
Prabhupada:
We are working, we are writing these books and
selling
them. That's all. This is our work.
Professor
Dürckheim: I see.
Prabhupada:
We have no other... Even in the Indian
Parliament, the
question was raised that "How is that this international society is
spending lavishly? What is their income?" There is a rumor that
Americans are sending these CIA, what is this? [everyone laughs] Rascal
people, they think the CIA has come to dance and chant Hare
Krishna. [everyone laughs] So, of course the reply was
given that we have no information that these people are CIA but we know
that they are maintaining themselves by selling their literature and
public contribution. That's all. And we have got 102 centers like this.
This is not very... If you go to our Los Angeles center, New York
center and other, Vrindavana center and Navadvipa
center, not less than 200 men are there always. And we are providing
with their food, shelter. We give education to their children. We are
getting them married. We don't allow these boys to live as friends. No.
"You get yourself married." Yes. [German] Here is a girl,
Kausalya. I picked her from Hawaii. Now you can ask what she was
and what she is now. Now she's married. She's happy. She has everything
here. Life is there. [pause] Hare Krishna. So I think
you are all learned gentlemen, you should give us support and cooperate
with this movement. It is very nice movement. That is my request to
you.
Satsvarupa:
May we take your leave, Srila
Prabhupada?
Prabhupada:
No. You sit down. I do not... I can talk all
night. [devotees laugh] Because it is Krishna's talk that is
your [indistinct] already. Satatam kirtayanto mam
[Bhagavad-gita 9.14]. Why do you stop? Satatam. Go
on. Continuous. What is that? Satatam means?
Satsvarupa:
Always?
Prabhupada:
Satatam kirtayanto mam
yatantash cha dridha-vratah,
namasyantash cha mam... [Bhagavad-gita 9.14].
Dr. P.J. Saher:
In what way can we support, or
cooperate with your
movement? In what way can we offer optimal benefit to your movement?
Prabhupada:
That is a simple thing. You chant Hare
Krishna. That's all.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
No. I mean in a further, in an
extended way. For
example...
Hansadutta:
Yes. We have got a life membership program
which
can be [indistinct] can participate in that way.
Prabhupada:
You can become a life member and read all
these books
and chant Hare Krishna. There is no loss. Suppose you
chant Hare Krishna, there is no material loss on your
part, but if there is any gain, why don't you take it?
Dr. P.J. Saher:
No, my question was perhaps a little,
not quite
clear. Many of us here, myself felt, represent not only our personal
selves but are here on behalf of certain institutions and we are active
in some form or other of public service, these gentlemen probably also.
And in what way, for example, would we serve your movement by giving a
clear explanation about the aims of your activity, for example,
removing prejudices and supporting Sanskrit studies and the better
distribution of the Bhagavad-gita in this form, in such
ways, perhaps?
Prabhupada:
Yes. We are writing these books for
distribution.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
Yes. Yes. Yes, I've already suggested
that one.
Prabhupada:
Yes. And they are not manufactured knowledge.
They are
standard knowledge, Vedic knowledge, I am explaining for understanding
of the people in general. Each word is being explained. Here is my
dictaphone. I am sitting here. So as soon as I stop talking, I shall
write immediately. At night also, I get up at two o'clock, one o'clock,
and write these books.
Hansadutta:
Prabhupada came to United States in 1965,
and this movement was started in 1966, '67, and since that time, he has
published about twenty books like this, including Bhagavad-gita,
Chaitanya-charitamrita.
Prabhupada:
And what is the number of books sold last
year?
Satsvarupa:
Four million.
Prabhupada:
Four million copies.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
May I please put a question before I
forget. I
heard from our, or I read in the invitation that this center is not
only a center as such but something more. It should also be an ashrama
and also a forest university in the tradition of the
ancient times.
Prabhupada:
Yes.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
A kind of a university also.
Prabhupada:
Oh, yes. Yes.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
Like Indian and allied sciences, Vedic
sciences.
Prabhupada:
My idea is that all our centers should be
self-supported. We do not like that idea that for your support you have
to go 100 miles to get your bread. That is a very dangerous drawback.
You produce your food locally and then support yourself. The main
problem is what to eat, where to sleep. So we get some place and
support ourself by producing our own food. We have already begun in New
Vrindaban, New..., West Virginia, Virginia, and similarly in other
centers, we are producing our food, grains, vegetables, fruits and
milk. That is sufficient. But we don't kill any animals. That we don't
do.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
But will this center also be a place
of learning
for Sanskrit studies and allied topics?
Prabhupada:
Oh, yes. We are educating our children in
Dallas. We
have got very good institution, Sanskrit and English, and they are
reading these books. That is sufficient. If they read these books, all
different department of knowledge will be acquired. Kasmin tu
bhagavo
vijnate sarvam idam vijnatam bhavati.
Yes. You can play a little record. Last night...
Hansadutta:
This morning's recording?
Prabhupada:
Yes.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
May I please ask, are there is also
room for
physical yoga exercises while chanting of the God's names?
Prabhupada:
Yes, but we are exercising by dancing.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
Yes, of course. [tape of Prabhupada
singing is
played]
Prabhupada:
Make little louder. [tape plays for about five
minutes
of Prabhupada singing prayers to the six Gosvamis]
What are these pictures?
Hansadutta:
These are pictures of our society's activities
in the temples.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
Very constructive and very... So much
success in a
relative very short time, if you began in 1966.
Prabhupada:
'67.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
And during the Bangladesh crisis you
also...
Prabhupada:
Yes, anyone came; we feed. That much... There
were
many refugees, so we fed them.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
But that automatically answers the
question of this
gentlemen also, the body in the service of other people, you see...
Prabhupada:
No, we give food. Anyone come and take food.
Here
also. There is no question of Bangladesh. Let anyone come and take
food. In our Mayapura center we especially give food
distribution on Saturday and Sunday. At least five thousand people
come. So all humanitarian work is included.
Lady:
Thank you very much.
Prabhupada:
Hare Krishna. Thank you. [some guests
leave] So now we have come to Germany. You cooperate and make it a
great success for the general benefit of the whole humanity. We have
got arts, music, literature, culture, food, everything.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
I think it will also help to quite a
considerable
extent for the removing of prejudices and for a better understanding
of...
Prabhupada:
No, this is the only platform where all
people, all
religion, all culture, can unite. This is the only place,
Krishna consciousness. We practically see how they are
becoming successful. In Africa also, within the villages they are
responding. [break] ...distinction.
Devotee:
[showing Srila Prabhupada's books] This is
Spanish, Chinese.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
[indistinct] Chinese.
Prabhupada:
Japanese also. And Hindi.
Devotee:
Italian, French. Hindi also we have. Bengali,
Gujarati.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
But I also noticed on the faces of the
devotees
downstairs that many or several faces were, we would say in the West,
sublimated, that the facial features showed that a certain form of
sublimation had taken place.
Prabhupada:
Even children are learning how to dance, how
to offer
obeisances, how to chant, how to clap. They are also learning, small
children.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
And I think that it comes at the right
time so that
people may not be misled into juvenile delinquency, all of those "easy
riders" and motorcycles and adolescent criminality. They find creative
outlets for their energies also as a by-product.
Prabhupada:
No. We are teaching... Of course, we do not
defy this
modern advance of material civil... We don't say that. But this is our
main business, that is, jivasya tattva-jijnasa,
to inquire about the Absolute Truth.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
So can you not say that this knowledge
is an atma-vidya, that we are trying to come to the knowledge
of
the atman.
Prabhupada:
Atmine?
Dr. P.J. Saher:
Atma, self.
Prabhupada:
Oh, atma, yes. Tattva-jijnasa
means atma-jijnasa.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
That is why it is also correct to
translate the
term krishna-arjuna-samvara [?] as a kind of
metaphysical knowledge, philosophical knowledge.
Prabhupada:
No, whole
knowledge. Metaphysical, physical, everything is there.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
In the Gita it also, a
verse, that
"Four kinds of persons seek Me..."
Prabhupada:
Ah, yes. Chatur-vidha bhajante mam.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
"The man who seeks knowledge."
Prabhupada:
Yes, yes, chatur-vidha. And similarly,
there are
four kinds of rascals. Chatur-vidha. No. Na
mäà
dushkritino mudhah prapadyante
naradhamah [Bhagavad-gita 7.15]. Everything is
there.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
But, perhaps, that could be also a
question, that
Graf Dürckheim has in mind, I think, perhaps, when he asked the
question about belief, etc. Perhaps he also thinks that we are living
in a period of, where, because of the technological construction of
society, rational knowledge is appreciated and, for example, ten years
ago non-rational knowledge in Germany, actually, or in Europe was
highly suspected. We had lived through a period of positivism, and
people in our universities even wanted to abolish the word consciousness.
They even wanted to abolish the word psychology
on the
basis, on the presumption that there is no such thing as a...
Professor
Dürckheim: But this time is over.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
Yes.
Professor
Dürckheim: The modern times are not modern
anymore.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
I agree with you but just think how
the world was
only a few years ago.
Professor
Dürckheim: Yes. And especially if you talk
about the rational, the really German tradition is the
irrational. So now this is
coming back now, rediscovering their own past slowly.
Prabhupada:
So long they do not come to the standard
platform,
they will accept this sometimes and that sometimes. This will go on,
changing.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
No, but I meant it differently. Can it
not be that
average man in the street... I don't mean... Yes, it was, of course, in
Germany. Man in the street now is infected from the...
Professor
Dürckheim: Absolutely, yes.
Dr. P.J. Saher:
And he thinks that in order to give a
rational
presentment ... [break]
Professor
Dürckheim: ...I realize that the closer
members engaged,
really, in this work of distributing books and chanting, wearing the
white robes and shaving the heads, they are the closer participants I
suppose. And then have you also members of your movement which are
simply in their work, in the community, in the world? Or is...
Prabhupada:
No, we invite everyone.
Professor
Dürckheim: You invite. But as far as
members are concerned,
to become a member of your movement...
Hansadutta:
Yes, we have people in all walks of life. For
example, we have the [German]. He is a life member. And all people...
Professor
Dürckheim: He's simply a member?
Hansadutta:
Yes. He is a member, he supports the movement,
he follows the principles himself, he appreciates the philosophy, but
he has his responsibility in the society. He acts as a member of the
society and he is a member. But his lifestyle is
Krishna consciousness. [end]
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