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Dr. P. J. Saher: Has the
name a special esoteric meaning?
And is the
technique of chanting the name, has this a special hidden purpose that
the unenlightened...
Prabhupada: No, not
hidden but open because Absolute is
not
different from His name. Therefore when you chant the name of the
Absolute that means you associate with the Absolute. And as soon as you
associate with the Absolute you become purified.
Dr. P. J. Saher: Like
iron in fire.
Prabhupada: Yes, that's
right. [break] ...Vedic
injunction:
harer nama harer nama harer
nama eva kevalam
kalau
nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha [Chaitanya-charitamrita
Adi-lila 17.21]
For your perfection you simply
chant the name of the Lord—harer
nama, harer. Harer means of the Lord and nama
means name.
Thrice. Just like we give stress three times, "You do it. You do it.
You do it." This is a good stress. Similarly, the shastra
says harer nama harer nama harer nama, nama eva
kevalam, simply chant the Lord's name. Kalau, in this
age of Kali. Nasty eva, nasty eva, nasty eva gatir anyatha.
There is no other alternative for self-realization, no other
alternative for self-realization, therefore stress should be given for
everyone to chant the holy name of the Lord. [German] Kali
means the
age of quarrel, the age of quarrel. This age is simply for fighting and
quarrel. They're not interested to understand the Absolute Truth. But
they're interested in fighting and quarreling. Therefore this age
called Kali. Kali means fighting.
<>
Professor
Dürckheim: The answer to the question thus, how you
find out God, is: sing
or speak the name of God, Krishna.
Dr. P. J. Saher: Will you please be so kind as to further
elucidate
your technique of that one chants the name of God and will you please
be so kind as to elucidate further in some particular way or what
comes, what should be done in relation to that or how it is, how it
is formulated in that, in that total, in that complete system of your
reverent teachings?
Prabhupada: Yes. This is
the bhakti-marga, means,
the first
thing is shravanam, hearing. Just like these books are being
written to give chance people to hear. That is first business. If we
don't hear about God we simply imagine something. No. We must hear
about God. We are publishing eighty books like this, simply to hear
about God. Then when you hear perfectly then you can describe to
others. That is called kirtanam. Shravanam, kirtanam.
And when the process goes on hearing and
chanting or
describing... kirtanam means describing. Just like our, this
whole
society is hearing from these books and they're going out to describe.
This is called kirtana. Then by these two process, hearing and
chanting, you remember, smaranam. That means remembering, you
always associate with God.
Dr. P. J. Saher: So at
all times, "Remember Me."
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Shravanam
kirtanam vishnoh smaranam
pada-sevanam [Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.5.23]. Then
worshiping the Deity, to offer
flowers to the lotus feet of the Lord, to garland, to dress, pada-sevanam,
archanam vandanam, offer prayer, dasyam,
serve. In this way, there are nine different processes.
Dr. P. J. Saher: We have
a similar thing in the Christian.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Christian method, the offering prayer.
That is bhakti, that is bhakti. [break]
Guest:
What is the meaning of Kali-yuga?
Prabhupada:
Kali-yuga means
fight. Nobody
is interested to understand the truth but they'll simply fight, "In my
opinion, this." I say, "My opinion, this." You say, "His opinion." So
many foolish opinions and fight within themselves. This is the age. No
standard opinion. Everyone has got his own opinion. Therefore there
must be fighting. Everyone says, "I think like this." So what is your
value, your thinking like that? That is Kali-yuga. Because you have no
standard knowledge. If a child says the father, "In my opinion, you
should do like this." Is that opinion to be taken? If he does not know
the thing, how he can give his opinion? But here, in this age, everyone
is prepared with his own opinion. Therefore it is fight, quarrel. Just
like the United Nation, all the big men go there to become united, but
they're increasing flags. That's all. Fighting, it is a society of
fighting only. The Pakistan, the Hindustan, the American, the Vietnam.
It was meant for unity but it is rendered into fighting association.
That's all. Everything. Because everyone is imperfect, anyone should
give his perfect knowledge.
Dr. P. J. Saher:
Do you mean the Kali-yuga exists all the
time?
Prabhupada:
No. This is the period when foolish men have
developed
so many. Instead of making solution the fighting increasing. Because
they have no standard knowledge. Therefore this Brahma-sutra
says
that you should be eager to inquire about the Absolute Truth. Athato
brahma jijnasa. Now the answer, next quote,
is that Brahman, or the Absolute Truth is that from which, or from
Whom, everything has come. Athato brahma jijnasa,
janmady asya yatah [Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.1.1]. Now
you find out where is
the... Everyone is trying to find out what is the ultimate cause. That
should be the aim. That if you follow these philosophical quotes then
your fighting will stop. You'll be sober. This verse also athato
jijnasa. Athato jijnasa means to
inquire about the Absolute Truth. Sit down, because there should be a
class of men, very intelligent class of men in the society who are
discussing about the Absolute Truth and they will inform others, "This
is Absolute Truth, my dear friends, my dear..." Should do it like this.
That is one thing. But here everyone is absolute truth. That is
fighting. [break]
<>
Professor
Dürckheim: Hasn't it always been believed—as Plato
said—that the King should be wise, and the wise should be King?
Vedavyasa: [translating]...was the always the desire of mankind to
find
[indistinct] he says the kings should be wise and the wise men should
be kings.
Prabhupada:
Yes.
Professor
Dürckheim: The desire is not crucial, but the knowledge. The
desire is everywhere the same, but the knowledge is different.
Vedavyasa:
[translating] So he said that this was always the desire
but...
Prabhupada:
But thing is that this desire is there
everywhere. But
whose desire is standard? That should be understood. Everyone is
desiring. But whose desire is to be followed? What is the actual,
factual desire? That is to be understood. Unless you do not know what
is the standard of desire, then this fighting will go on. You desire, I
desire... [break]
Vedavyasa:
...saying that knowledge is important also...
Prabhupada:
No, no.
Knowledge, that is described. Knowledge is according to the quality of
the person. If the man is a debauch, what is the value of his
knowledge? We cannot take up the knowledge that's given by a debauch.
The perfect human being is described. Shamo damas
titiksha, arjava. [to Satsvarupa:] Find out.
Satsvarupa:
Yes.
[Lady speaks in
German.]
Vedavyasa:
[translating] She says that we cannot have
heaven on earth.
Prabhupada:
Hm?
Vedavyasa:
We cannot have heaven on earth simply by our
desiring
it.
Prabhupada:
No. Just like there are intelligent class of
men, they
sit together. They do not fight. Still you can men... because the
example is there. But that requires qualification. Therefore what is
that qualification?
Satsvarupa:
shamo
damas tapah shaucham
kshantir arjavam eva cha
jnana, vijnanam astikyam
brahma-karma svabhava-jam [Bhagavad-gita 18.42]
"Translation:
Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, calmness,
honesty, wisdom, knowledge and religiousness. These are the qualities
by which the brahmanas work."
Prabhupada:
That is the qualities of the highest
intelligent class
of men. So if you do not find such qualities, how his knowledge should
be perfect? These are the qualities.
Professor
Pater Porsch: Are we also all convinced of it?
Vedavyasa:
[translating] He doubts that everyone is convinced about
that.
Prabhupada:
Eh? Eh?
Vedavyasa:
He's doubting if we should convince them of
that.
Prabhupada:
Well, who is not self-controlled, he'll not be
convinced because he'll think that he's rebellious, "I can do anything
what I like. I can eat whatever I like." Now how he will like this idea
of self-control?
Professor
Dürckheim: But one question, you see. These
virtues have been
always stressed by Christian churches also, exactly the same. But then
today we realize that the virtues are on one level with the vices. But
there's something different. If you pass through the [indistinct] step
you get somewhere, you see where we can understand, for instance, if
Christ says "Let the dead bury their dead." A phrase like this appeals
to a different level. So I think as long as you...
Prabhupada:
No. It is not different level.
Professor
Dürckheim: I said that these virtues were always
demanded by Christ and the
church. But virtues in the sense of the ethics are on one level with
the vices. And we hear again and again sentences, which break through
this level
of the virtues and vices, if it says e.g. of Christ, "leave the dead to
bury their dead...", "I have not come to bring peace
but the sword...". There is thus one level...
Prabhupada:
The advice is
given
according to the time, person. So if people follow Lord Christ and, I
mean to say, instruction that is also perfect. But they do not follow.
Professor
Dürckheim: They do not...
Prabhupada:
They do not follow.
Professor
Dürckheim: Sure...
Prabhupada:
That's it. Otherwise either you follow Bhagavad-gita
or Bible as they are, then you become
gradually perfect. The difficulty is they do not follow. And still
they're claiming "I am Christian." "I am Hindu." "I am this." "I am
that." Rubber stamp. No qualification but rubber stamp. This is the
defect. [break]
Vedavyasa:
...qualifications on the material platform.
Prabhupada:
First of all acquire this material
qualification. Then
talk of spiritual. Just like I think in the university if one
wants to learn about law he must be graduate first of all.
Dr. P. J. Saher:
In India. Yes.
Prabhupada:
So you, first of all become graduate, then
talk
of law
books. Similarly, you first of all become a brahmana. Then
you understand about Brahman, Absolute Truth. Without becoming brahmana
how you can understand? [break]
Satsvarupa:
[reading from Bhagavad-gita]
"...three
modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four
divisions of human society were created by Me, and although I am the
creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the nondoer,
being unchangeable." [break]
Professor
Dürckheim: Your message, I think, will be
very much
appreciated by the youth of today in the western part of the world who
says to the adults, "You have educated us to go to maintain our
position in the world, to do something useful for the community and to
behave nicely. But you never, but you never asked us who we are and who
we should become [indistinct]." This is the problem.
Prabhupada:
That is the beginning of our talk, that you
are spirit
soul.
Professor
Dürckheim: I beg your pardon.
Prabhupada:
You are spirit soul, not this body. That is
the
beginning of our talk.
<>
Professor
Pater Porsch: It seems to me that a large difference
nevertheless shows up here. You speak of the gradual process of the
self implementation, of acquiring the brahmanical qualifications. I am
missing out whether it is not possible, directly, by God's grace to be
illuminated and to become pure, without itself...
Vedavyasa: [translating] He [Professor Pater Porsch] said that your
answer that we are not this
body,
that we are spirit soul, it is not our real answer to our actual
problem.
Prabhupada:
Hm?
Vedavyasa:
He said that if you said that we are fleeing,
fleeing
from the actual problems which we have now...
Prabhupada:
Actual program, the actual program is
there.
[break]
Vedavyasa:
He's speaking of the gradual process of
self-realization. First of all...
Prabhupada:
Hm?
Vedavyasa:
We are speaking of the gradual process of
self-realization, first adopting these brahminical qualities and going
further and further. So he asks if he's missing, if it's not possible
to become illuminated at once by God's grace, to become converted
without undergoing these...
Prabhupada:
Chant Hare Krishna. That will do.
<>
Professor
Pater Porsch: Without that?
Prabhupada: Yes,
you haven't got to undergo this or that. Simply chant and it will...,
you'll become perfect. So easiest. But still they will not accept. That
is the difficulty. When you give the easiest way they won't accept.
Easiest way is we are recommending the chant the holy name of God. Do
it.
Professor
Dürckheim: The
separation of soul from this body is thus the larger misunderstanding.
Professor Pater
Porsch: Therefore I ask also with reservation!
Professor
Dürckheim: The simplest way.
Prabhupada:
Not
that you chant the name of Krishna.
You have got your name of God, you chant that. Begin that. [Break]
Professor
Pater Porsch: There I have still another question.
Prabhupada: Then
how can I help you? There is [indistinct]. You do not
know. So our recommendation is, not my recommendation, from the Vedic
literature, authoritative recommendation and the Bhagavad-gita,
satatam kirtayanto
mam yatantash cha
dridha-vratah [Bhagavad-gita 9.14]. Everything is
there.
You begin. Therefore I said in this age so many things is impossible to
be done. But you begin chanting the holy name of God. Where is the
difficulty?
Professor
Pater Porsch: To know the name, because I...
Prabhupada:
To know. Why you are doubtful? There is name.
If you
do not know take it from us. [chuckling] Why you deny that?
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