Prabhupada's original, unrevised books. Beware
of imitations. More than 160 titles published! Learn more.
Stop the Killing, Stop the Cheating
His Divine Grace A.C.
Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Founder-Acharya of the
world-wide Hare Krishna Movement, Brahma Sampradaya Acharya
- July 20, 2006 - By NORMAN SOLOMON - The Most Dangerous Alliance in the World Embarrassing.
Shameful. A travesty. Those kinds of words begin to
describe the alliance between the United States and Israel. Here are a
few more: Government criminality. High-tech terror. Mass murder from
the skies. The kind of premeditated action that the U.S. representative
in Nuremberg at the International Conference on Military Trials --
Supreme Court Justice Robert L. Jackson -- was talking about on August
12, 1945, when he declared that “no grievances or policies will justify
resort to aggressive war. It is utterly renounced and condemned as an
instrument of policy.”
The United States and Israel. Right now, it’s the most dangerous
alliance in the world.
Of course, Israeli officials talk about murderous crimes against
civilians by Hezbollah and Hamas. And Hezbollah and Hamas officials
talk about murderous crimes against civilians by Israel. Plenty of real
crimes to go around. At the same time, by any measure, Israelis have
done a lot more killing than dying. (If you doubt that, take a look at
the website of the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem and its
documentation of deadly events.)
In American media, the current mumbling about the need for “restraint”
is little better than window-dressing for bomb-dropping. The prevalent
dynamic is based on a chain of rarely spoken lies, however conscious or
unconscious: none more important than the lie that a religion can make
one life worth more than another; render a human death unimportant;
elevate certain war-inflicted agonies to spiritual significance.
Srila Prabhupada on morning walk with his
15, 1973 in Los Angeles.
Prabhupada: What is the
difficulty for the
scientist to understand God? What is their difficulty? We understand
God very easily.
Svarup Damodar: They find it
very hard to see the spirit, the soul in... It is very doubtful, they
Prabhupada: No, no, spirit
you see or don't see, that is different...
Umapati: He studies matter.
Prabhupada: No, that's all
Svarup Damodar: No, once they
see the spirit soul, they can detect somehow, then they are definitely
Prabhupada: So how you can
see? It is... The measurement is given, 1/10,000th part of the tip of
the hair. So where is your seeing power?
Svarup Damodar: Still they
want to sense it by some...
Prabhupada: Sense, that is...
Any rascal can sense that here is living energy. That is spirit soul.
Just like if you inject one grain of poison and immediately he dies,
does it require how he dies? That one, not one grain. Even one
hundredth part of one grain, venomous poison, how it acts? So even
nobody can see it, when the snake bites, nobody can see where is
that... How he dies?
Svarup Damodar: They will
explain that by..., it blocks some of the metabolic paths...
Prabhupada: That's all right,
but it is acting. That is my point. You can explain in your nonsense
way, this, so many things. But I see that because that very little
portion of poison is there, immediately he dies. Why don't you see the
Svarup Damodar: Just like
taking cyanide. Cyanide, they say cyanide blocks the...
Prabhupada: Whatever it may
be, but the thing, we have to see by the effect. Similarly, if the
small particle of... Therefore our knowledge is perfect. We take it
from Vedas. The small particle of soul, because it is
present there, you will see the whole thing is going on nicely.
Karandhara: But they say the
soul is subject to material conditions. They are seeing the body as the
soul; so they say because it is subject to material conditions,
therefore it's not eternal.
Prabhupada: No, no. Maybe
material conditions, that is... But soul you have to accept there is
Svarup Damodar: Once they
accept the existence of the soul, then there is not much difficulty.
Once they accept this, then automatically they have to accept.
Prabhupada: No, they have to
accept. They have no explanation. All they explain foolishly. How the
man is living, how there is consciousness, he cannot explain. Avinashi
tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idam tatam. Consciousness, because the
soul is there, if I pinch here, immediately I feel, I am conscious.
Throughout the whole skin, I am conscious. Actually the soul is not
there. If you cut it, chop it, nobody protests. Why this simple thing
they do not understand?
Paramahamsa: That's the soul,
Prabhupada, but about God...?
Prabhupada: First of all let
us understand the soul. Soul is the, a small God, sample God. If you
understand the sample, then you can understand the whole thing.
Umapati: Some scientists are
claiming that just because they haven't yet discovered how to create
life, they are soon to, and...
Prabhupada: What is that?
Umapati: They are in the
process of trying to create life.
Prabhupada: That is
rascaldom. That we kick out. That we kick on their face. You show what
you have got just now. That we don't accept, that "We are trying."A
rascal will say, "I am trying to be millionaire." When you become
millionaire, then talk. Now you are a poor vagabond. That's all. That
we shall accept. What... You are trying. Everyone will say, "I am
trying." What you are now? That is our proposition.
Paramahamsa:. At the present
they know how to kill very good.
Prabhupada: Yes. Nonsense.
"We are trying." That any nonsense will say, "I am trying." What is
this? That is not a scientific proposition.
Umapati: Well, the argument
that has been presented is that "Well we don't have it now, but soon
we're to have it. So..."
Prabhupada: That any rascal
will say. What is the difference between you and the rascal? Any rascal
will say, that "I am trying to..." What is the use of these scientists?
Any rascal will say. Trust no future, however pleasant. You can talk of
all pleasant things in future, but you don't trust it. You as you don't
trust, because you do not see soul, you don't trust. Why shall I trust
you, you rascal, that in future you shall be very great scientist? You
do not trust because you do not see. There is no soul. You cannot see.
So why shall I trust you? What is the answer? That in future you will
be able to do something extraordinary. Why shall I trust you?
Umapati: Give them a lot of
Karandhara: Well they say
they have done so much in the past, they have accomplished so much in
Prabhupada: That is all
useless. What you have done? You have not given any contribution that
there will be no death. The death is there. In the past there was
death, and people are dying now. What you have done?
Paramahamsa: Helped death.
Prabhupada: Helped means you
have helped to minimize their duration of life. Formerly man was living
hundred years. Now they do not live more than sixty, seventy years.
That you have helped certainly. What you have helped? A man is dying
ordinarily, and you have created atomic energy. You can kill thousands
of men. So you have helped only in dying. But you have not helped in
living. That is not possible. Then what you have done? Some childish
play? What you have done? You cannot stop death, you cannot stop birth,
you cannot stop disease, you cannot stop old age. So what you have
done? Formerly people used to become old. Now also, they are becoming
old. Formerly people used to die. They are dying now also. Formerly the
people used to become diseased. They are becoming diseased. More
diseased. More medicine. What you have helped? You have not helped
anything in the improvement of the order of the world? What is that
Umapati: The same scientists
will point to India and say, "Look at all the dying and starving people
Prabhupada: No, no, why
Indians? We are talking of the whole world. Why you take the example of
the Indians? Indians may be backward. We are talking of you, so
forward. What you have done? Indians may be backward. We are not
talking of any particular nation or particular people. We are talking
of general people, people in general. India, why bring India?
Umapati: Well, it's the
popular opinion over here that Indians are...
Prabhupada: No, no, why do
you bring? This is another foolishness. Why do you bring India? What
you have done first of all, sir?
Umapati: Well, I am not doing
Prabhupada: No no, you are
your men. Those who are not Indian.
Paramahamsa: Well, perhaps
it's because spiritual culture originates, spiritual culture is,
permeates their society.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is.
When spiritual consciousness is presented in truth, then you become
conquered. You have been already. The Christian people are astonished,
how Krishna consciousness movement so big shape within so few years.
They are afraid now. Yes. And why they shall not be? Here is science.
And that is foolishness only.
Umapati: That's their new
Prabhupada: Yes. "God has
only one son." Why? God one son? I asked the priest, that "God is
limited or unlimited?" "Oh, unlimited." "Then why should you limit it
by one son?" He could not answer. "Ordinary men have more than one son,
and God has got only one son." Why? He could not answer. There is no
philosophy. How people will...? This system, religion, was taught
thousands of years, some shepherds, some fourth-class men. And now
people are so much advanced in science, why they will accept it? Jesus
Christ is preaching first thing, "Thou shalt not kill." That means he
was preaching among the killers. So what kind of men they are? Tenth
class of men. And how this tenth class man religion will be acceptable
by the first class men? Now people are becoming first-class men. These
things are go on, dogmas and nonsense philosophy. That will not stand.
Automatically Christian religion is dead now. Nobody is going. There is
no philosophy. There is no science. How it will be accepted. And they
are violating, simply violating. Whatever it may be. Christ says "Thou
shalt not kill." They are simply killing. How it will go on? How long
you can cheat people? What is the explanation there? The first order is
"Thou shalt not kill." Why they are killing? What is the answer?
Umapati: Sense gratification.
Prabhupada: That's all.
Paramahamsa: They have lost
respect as well.
Prabhupada: Yes. Violating
the laws. So how they can go on with the business?
Umapati: Somehow they think
they have an answer.
Prabhupada: They have no
answer. As soon as I asked this question... Yesterday also, last, that
television, he also asked the same question. He has purchased all our
books. So "Why this Christian religion is declined?" And "Why it will
not? Why you are violating?" He could not answer. He could not answer.
He will violate... All, many Christian priests ask me this question,
and as soon as they put this question, they stop. They stop. They
cannot answer. "Why you are killing? The first order is 'Thou shalt not
kill,' and why you are killing?" They cannot answer. I asked them two
questions. "Why unlimited God shall have only one son? And why you are
killing?" They cannot answer. Or you answer?
Prabhupada: The earth was
flat. They believed that the world is flat. So how much imperfect
knowledge they have got. So imperfect knowledge, how long it can go?
Just like we are going to challenge all these rascals that life is
grown out of matter. We are going to challenge. It is not a fact. So
how long you can cheat people? For hundred, two hundred, thousand
years, but you cannot cheat for all the time.
Umapati: It has been going on
from time immemorial. I guess they figure they can just keep going on
for time immemorial.
Prabhupada: No time
immemorial. You are being cheated for two hundred, three hundred years,
that's all. Not before that. All these scientists rascals, have come
out within two hundred years. That's all. So you are being cheated for
the last two hundred years, not for thousands of years. So it will be
finished. Within another fifty years, everything will be finished.
Karandhara: Yes, they say now
there is an anti-intellectual movement. People are rebelling to science
and modern progress.
Prabhupada: What is that
science? That is not science. That is ignorance. Ignorance. Simply
ignorance. Ignorance is going as science. Irreligion is going as
religion. So how long it will go? People are becoming intelligent.
Paramahamsa: In Newsweek
Magazine—it's the largest magazine in the United States—there
was an article about the degradation of Christianity, and they
summarized it with a cartoon, a picture of the devil, you know maya.
This is their image of maya. And he was causing earthquakes.
There was a very large earthquake in South America. It killed many
thousands of people. So they attribute this to maya. And right
next to them was a picture of Richard Nixon, because he is a very
famous, you know... He presents himself as a follower of Christ. And
he's bombing Southeast Asia.
Prabhupada: "Thou shalt not
Paramahamsa: Yeah. And the
devil turned to Richard Nixon and said, "It's hell keeping up with
Prabhupada: [laughs] Yes,
people will criticize like that. People are becoming advanced. How long
you can cheat them with so-called science, so-called religion? Now you
take up this Krishna consciousness movement seriously. He will give
real thing. Try to understand. Yasmin vijnate sarvam evam
vijnatam bhavati (Mundaka Upanishad 1.3). If you
simply understand Krishna, everything will be known to you. This is the
process. If you simply understand Krishna, Krishna is explaining
Himself in the Bhagavad-gita—you know everything. You
know everything. And that is the Vedic injunction, Yasmin
vijnate sarvam evam vijnatam bhavati: "By knowing Krishna only,
you know everything." That science you try to understand and preach;
people will be happy. Now, our question was that we say that the man...
I say man. Other living entities, they are also living entities. So in
Christian religion also, they say, "The man is made after God." Is it
Paramahamsa: "In the image of
Prabhupada: So man is the
sample of God. So why don't you try, study nicely man, and you can
know, understand God, what is God. I asked these Christian people, "If
man is made after the image of God, you study very scrutinizingly a
perfect human being, and you will know what is God."
Umapati: The most ideal image
of a human being is God.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is the
Vedic injunction. Nityo nityanam chetanash chetananam (Katha
Upanishad 2.2.13). So you take a perfect man. Just like Krishna,
you take a perfect man, take him as man, you see that He is God. He has
got all the perfections. Even if you take him as a man.
Paramahamsa: No competition.
Prabhupada: No competition.
That is Bhagavan. Bhagavan means... We are giving this
definition. Bhagavan means a perfect man. That's all. Now, just
like man wants to wife, to have wife. So why there is, what is called,
adulteration? He wants more than one wife. Just see, perfect Krishna,
He has got sixteen thousand wives, which you cannot imagine. Here is
perfection. You cannot say that a man has no inclination to have more
than one wife. That is there. So that propensity is, in perfection, is
there in Krishna. Therefore He is God.
Umapati: They refer to it as
the Don Juan complex.
Prabhupada: Juan complex,
what is that?
Umapati: It's a character in
Spanish history, fictional history. The perfect lover, the image that
all men would like to be, the perfect lover.
Prabhupada: Yes. So who can
be perfect lover than Krishna? Krishna, He loves everyone. Where is
that man, he loves everyone? The so-called patriot, they love their
countrymen, but kill their animals. Why? Mr. Nixon loves his
countrymen. Why not love his country cows? They are also born in the
land. They require also. They have right to live, so why they are
killed? That is imperfection. And Krishna is embracing the calf, come
on, and embracing Radharani also. That is
perfection. That is perfection. Krishna talks with birds. These are
there. One day on the bank of Yamuna He was talking with a bird.
One old lady saw and said, "Oh, He's talking with a bird?" That is
Paramahamsa: He sounded like
this? He talked like that, like the birds talk?
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Therefore Krishna's another quality is bahubhashajnah, He can
speak in any language.
Umapati: Birds have language?
Animals have their language?
Prabhupada: Oh yeah everyone
has language. Everyone.
Umapati: Father, how is it
that we can enjoy this energy we are in, Krishna's energy now, and we
acknowledge it as Krishna's in the neophyte stage. A pure devotee
realizes it as Krishna's energy, but as a neophyte, how do we enjoy
material energy in this aspect, the fresh air and the morning walk.
Prabhupada: A neophyte or
anyone who is not in Krishna consciousness, he does not enjoy. He
simply suffers. There is no question of enjoyment. Anyone who is not in
Krishna consciousness, he does not enjoy. He simply suffers. But he
takes the suffering as enjoyment. That is maya. That is maya.
Just like in your country, they are working day and night. Just like
from the morning, gugugugugugugugugu (makes noise of machine that is on
nearby) They are suffering, but the people are coming, enjoying golf.
That is suffering only. From the morning, going here, is it not
suffering? [laughter] But he's thinking, "I am enjoying." This is maya.
Umapati: Just like the
Prabhupada: Yes. This is maya.
He is suffering, but he's thinking I am enjoying. So any conditioned
soul, he doesn't enjoy anything. He simply suffers. But he thinks that
he is enjoying. Therefore the camel, camel example is given. Camel
example. Camel, he is eating his own blood, eating thorns, and the
thorns cutting the tongue, and from the tongue, blood is oozing out. So
when the blood is mixed up with the thorny twigs, it becomes little
tasteful, and he is thinking "Oh, it is very nice." Similarly, all
these grihasthas, enjoying sex life, he is discharging his own
blood, he's becoming weaker and weaker, he is thinking, "I am
enjoying." He is thinking, "I am enjoying." And if he uses more, then
he becomes diseased, tuberculosis. He is dying by that process, but
he's thinking, "I am enjoying." Therefore it is example for the camel.
He is enjoying his own blood by discharging. One drop of semen is made
out of so many drops of blood. Do you know?
Svarup Damodar: Forty drops.
Prabhupada: Just see. And how
many, how much drops of semen he is discharging... That means he's
spoiling his blood. But he is thinking, "I am enjoying." Would you like
to, by giving your blood to enjoy? Would you like?
Umapati: No, I don't think
Prabhupada: But you are doing
that, every night. And that is called maya.
Umapati: I'm a brahmachari,
Prabhupada: No, you
are...[laughter] I am giving an example. This is going on. He is going
to die. He has adopted a process by which he will die, and he thinks
that he is enjoying. This is called maya. maya means
things which is not, maya. Ma means not, ya
means this. "What you are thinking, it is not that." That is called maya.
So they are in maya means, they are thinking, these rascals,
they are thinking, improving, becoming happy, advancing this maya
word will finish everything, ma, ya: "Not this." Bhagavata
says that "You are thinking you are becoming victorious, but you are
being defeated." Parabhavas tavad abodha-jatah. These
rascal, abodha-jatah, born fools and rascal, they are becoming
defeated in every step. Parabhavas tavad abodha-jato yavan na
jijnasata atma-tattvam. So long he does not inquire about his
self, "What I am," he is simply being defeated. That's all. This is the
Umapati: Walking further into
Prabhupada: He's working
foolishly like animal. He does not know what is soul, what he is,
nothing of the sort. He is working hard day and night and he is
thinking, "I am becoming victorious." This is called maya. What
victory? Have you won victory over birth, death, the real problem? "No.
We have won victory. We can now, without horse, we can go with a car."
So what is that? With a horse or without horse, you cannot go anywhere
else. You will be here within this world. That's all. Just like these
rascals, now they have invented car. You know that? Formerly they were
Karandhara: Yes. Now he is
Prabhupada: That's all. What
is that? That within he's..., that golf area. [Apparently, a man is
mowing grass on a machine in the background] That's all. [laughing] You
know the cow? The cow is stuck up with a pole in India and long rope,
and he's thinking, "I am free."
Krishna-kanti: They have made
a longer rope.
Prabhupada: Yes. And he is
thinking, "I am so free." Is not? This rascaldom is going on.
Paramahamsa: The one who
wrote Paradise Lost, Milton, he also wrote a poem which
said that, "A working man is nothing but a devil's slave."
Prabhupada: Yes, that's it.
Paramahamsa: "He works so
hard for his money, but not his life can he save."
Prabhupada: No, what he will
do with the money? He will satisfy his senses, that's all.
Paramahamsa: So he sells his
Prabhupada: So he's servant
of the senses.
Umapati: He sells his
Umapati: Krishna's energy
that is in him, maya's energy.
...transmigration of soul. Suppose this time I am very great scientist,
and next life I become a tree like this. What is my advancement? Stand
up for ten thousand years. What is the advancement?
Svarup Damodar: Going
Prabhupada: Yes. Going to
hell, that's all. You are trying to be naked; nature will say, "Yes,
you stand here naked for ten thousand years." Yes. That is the
punishment for being naked. Human life is not meant for becoming naked.
That is according to Vedic civilization a great sin. You see. So their,
their propensity they are increasing to become naked like our George...
What's his name? Lennon, Lennon. So next time he is going to be tree,
stand up. Otherwise wherefrom the trees come? They cannot explain. You
become tree. That's all. Just like the Nalakuvara; they were taking
bath naked without caring for Narada. All right, you become naked for
one hundred years.
Svarup Damodar: Among the
trees also, there are different grades of trees, Srila
Prabhupada: Oh yes,
everywhere different grades. That is God's creation, variety.
Svarup Damodar: So those
trees which bear nice fruits and nice flowers, they are...
Prabhupada: Yes, they are
pious, pious trees. Otherwise why I am taking care of this leaf?
Because the flower is there. And who cares for this leaf? Trampling
down. As in the human society, there is first-class man, second-class
man, third-class man, similarly in every field, first-class, animal
Svarup Damodar: Cows.
Prabhupada: Yes. Useful,
giving milk. Most humble, useful. Even after death it is useful. And
they are so rascal, they are taking care of the dog, not of the cow.
Just see how they are rascals. And they are advanced, civilized. They
do not know what is meant by civilization. Now, according to Vedic
scripture, cow killing is sinful. It is never written, dog killing is
sinful. Generally, any animal you kill, that is sinful. But especially
cow killing is sinful. Go-hatya. Go-hatya. And that cow killing
is going on by the Christian world, and still, they are religious. What
kind of religion? Christian religion says generally, "Thou shalt not
kill." All... And especially they are killing cows. Generally killing
and especially killing. First thing is why they shall kill at all? In
America, oh, they have got sufficient food. So much rice, so much
wheat, so much oats, fruits, grains and butter and ghee. So why they
shall kill? What is the reason?
Prabhupada: Yes. Now what is
that bird who is killed in Christmas?
Prabhupada: Turkey, you see.
Now, Christmas, God's Christmas, Jesus Christ. He said, "Thou shalt not
kill." But his birthday is observed by killing, killing, killing,
Paramahamsa: And ham. Ham is
also cow, isn't it?
Paramahamsa: Pig. Pig and
turkey they have.
Krishna-kanti: Actually, they
kill the turkey on Thanksgiving, which is the day that they acknowledge
and give thanks to the Lord.
Umapati: For this great
Prabhupada: For giving them
opportunity to kill? And where is the opportunity? The Lord said, "Thou
shalt not kill." Where do they get the opportunity of killing? That is
another blaspheme. Where do they get this opportunity? They manufacture.
Sukadeva: In Seattle not only
do they eat cows, but they run out of cows and they start eating
horses. It is very famous now to buy horsemeat. They have horse steaks
instead of cow steaks. It has become so degraded now that they are
Paramahamsa: They ran out of
cows. Cows cost too much.
Sukadeva: So now they are
Prabhupada: So now they will
eat their old father. Yes. No price. Home made. [laughter] Home made
Svarup Damodar: I think it's
quite wet, Srila Prabhupada, this side.
Paramahamsa: Maybe drier over
Prabhupada: Yes. Anywhere you
Svarup Damodar: This side is
Paramahamsa: Not only did
Christ tell them not to kill, but he also, he himself said that all his
disciples were like sheep and animals and he was their herder. So he
gave the example that we are all like, we should be like innocent
animals. So many examples he gave like that.
Svarup Damodar: I remember
this in Pittsburgh last year Srila Prabhupada, in that meeting with the
bishops, there was a Christian father, a Catholic father. So the
question raised that Srila Prabhupada said, "Thou shalt not kill," in
the Bible, in the Commandments.
Prabhupada: Yes. I was
invited by some Christian priest in Melbourne, very good gathering. I
said also the same thing.
Svarup Damodar: I think his
answer was "When the Bible was written, Christ didn't mean this way."
That was his answer.
Prabhupada: Oh, He used that
part. He has found out. The rascal. Beat with shoes, that what
"Christian, Christ could not find out, you have found out. You are so
great. Thank you very much. You are more intelligent than Christ. Oh.
So why Bible. Why not write your Bible? Let us follow."
Paramahamsa: Generally there
are now something like 451 different translations. Just like the Gita.
They interpret in so many ways.
Prabhupada: No Gita,
or... Many translations, but the original Gita
Paramahamsa: Yeah. Well they
are not even sure that the Bible is [tape is very distorted] As a
matter of fact it's a known fact that so many of the excerpts from
Christ's disciples were, how you say, censored. There were parts taken
Prabhupada: Some Bible
authorities say that there is no soul of the animal. St. Joseph or
Devotee: St. Thomas.
Karandhara:. That was St.
Prabhupada: Just see. How
great fool he was. And he's a saint. You see.
Krishna-kanti: Well the real
in his book [tape distortions]
Svarup Damodar: One life is
the food of another.
Prabhupada: Another. That is
not the question. That is also science. And this is also science that
every living entity has got soul... [distortions] You eat. That I have
already said, but why do you say something which is not fact?
Devotee: They say what is the
difference between an animal and a plant?
Prabhupada: Maybe different.
[distortion]... Difference between you and me. That difference you'll
find amongst ourselves. We are all different. But that does not mean I
have no soul. Any one of us has soul. [distortions till end of tape]