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Prabhupada:
[speaking of scientists, citing the example he once came across of a
student who sat for an exam in English language] ... saw the question,
but he cannot answer. So he began to write words like this, whole book,
and the examiners saw that it has no meaning. But he has coined so many
words. They said, "Very intelligent." They passed him. [laughter] Now,
"upperfluous." You don't find all these words in
dictionary. "Upperfluous rain of agua was dogbendikulali gondolized by
lacticism of wine." It appears very gramatically nice composed, but it
has no meaning. So he coined such words, a full book. Because he could
not answer. So the time was there. He began to coin words. And he was
passed, for his intelligence. Similarly, these people are putting words
which you cannot understand, and they are getting their salaries,
that's all. [break] ...invent something, that they will not die, there
will be no disease, there will be no old age. That is something. What
is this nonsense, simply speculating? [break] The cloud is standing
there. It is not systematic. Then why the gravitation is not working?
There are millions and millions tons of water. Why the gravitation is
not working? The law of gravitation, why it is not working? Don't work
with a rod.(?) What is the answer? They are not systematic changing.
Why? Why the gravitation is not working, fall down? They are heavy,
very heavy when they, what is called... Agitation. What is called?
Srutakirti: Friction.
Prabhupada: Friction, yes.
There is so much sound. So why it is not
falling down?
Indian man: The scientist
says the pull of gravitation starts only so
high.
Prabhupada: Why it is not working in all heights? Then what is their
theory? If it is working under certain condition, who made this
condition? [break] ...the nature, "Now you get down these islands.
Get(?) the water," can they do that?
Bali-mardana: No, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Then how they
will come to know? [break] ...Krishna wants,
immediately this land, by earthquake, can go down, immediately, within
a second. So in the Vedic literature nature is accepted. But the
creation, maintenance, destruction, that is in the hand of God, not
nature. [break]
Prabhupada: Another foolish
propaganda.
Bali-mardana: Now they have
given up.
Prabhupada: You see? They
want to draw some salary, big salaries, by
bluffing the government and the public. This is their business. They
are failing. They have finished their business on this planet; now they
are going another planet. These are nonsense. [break] They know that
"We... So as far as possible, we have bluffed. Now our business in this
planet is finished. So let us go to another planet." This is going on.
Paramahamsa: Even if they
wanted to stop this space project, they
couldn't stop because they've already spent billions of dollars for
making equipment and rocket ships and launching pads and rocket bases
and so many employees. If they stop, then so much would be wasted, so
many people would be unemployed. So they have to continue even if they
know that it's a bluff.
Prabhupada: That is the way
of falsehood. If once you speak something
false, then to protect that falsehood you have to take to so many other
falsehoods. This is the way of falsehood.
Paramahamsa: One lie leads to
another.
Prabhupada: [break] ...are
going to Venus, Americans and Russians
combined together?
Ambarisa: This summer.
Prabhupada: Oh, in the
summer. Venus is very cold? Why they have
selected summer season? [laughter] [break] ...could not go to the moon,
and Venus is far above moon. How they will go?
Bali-mardana: They're not
going to Venus, are they?
Paramahamsa: Are they going
to Mars?
Bali-mardana: No, they're
just going around the earth, right?
Ambarisa: Yeah, they're
linking up in space.
Devotee (3): Prabhupada, when
they said they went to the moon and they
showed films of them landing and walking on the moon, was this all a
bluff?
Prabhupada: Yes, here they...
All laboratory work, that's all.
Devotee (3): They all made it
up?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bali-mardana: Prabhupada,
they are not going to go to Venus. The
American and Russian, they are just going to meet outside the earth.
They are not going to any planet.
Prabhupada: Oh, that is
finished.
Bali-mardana: It is too
difficult.
Ambarisa: They're going to
meet in space and float around in space.
Prabhupada: That is birds are
doing also. What is the credit?
Paramahamsa: They are
thinking that "What is the use of going to any
other planet, because there is no life on the other planets."
Prabhupada: Why no life?
Paramahamsa: Well, they have
photographs and things.
Prabhupada: Photograph, what
is this nonsense photograph? How long it
can go up?
Ambarisa: They're taken from
hundreds of miles up in space, and then
they say there is no life.
Prabhupada: What is hundreds
of miles? It is, er, forty billion, what
is that?
Paramahamsa: Four billion.
Prabhupada: Four billion. So
how they can calculate?
Paramahamsa: If they took a
photograph of the earth planet from up in
space, they would probably also say there is no life.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (3): They say because
the atmosphere is not like this planet,
others cannot live there.
Prabhupada: Why not
atmosphere? The moon planet, there is a planet.
There is space. There is surface. There is dust. So why not atmosphere
the same? It is made of the same ingredients, earth, water, fire. Why
do you say that is not same atmosphere?
Devotee (3): They are saying
that it's too cold or too hot.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
That is here also. There are many cold
places. Do they think that in the cold places there is no life? All
nonsense. And only nonsense will believe them. I never believed it.
Why? Here we see under this sand there is life. The crabs, what is
called? They live within, so many hundreds of thousands. We have seen
on the sand.
Indian man: And the polar
bears for cold season for living in mounds of
snows and all.
Prabhupada: There are birds,
some birds.
Paramahamsa: Penguins.
Prabhupada: Yes. Penguins
birds. There is life.
Bali-mardana: Seals, whales,
polar bears...
Prabhupada: There is life
everywhere. Bhagavad-gita says, sarva-gah. The
life is there everywhere. And moon planet,
according to our Vedic literature, that is one of the demigods' place.
People live there daiva age, ten thousand years.
Devotee (3): They will not
believe in the demigods...
Prabhupada: So I will not
believe them. That's all, finished. [laughter]
Devotee (3): They cannot see
them.
Prabhupada: What can you see,
teeny eyes? What can you see? Can you see
what is there on the other side of the sea? Then does it mean there is
nothing? Your nonsense seeing. Why you are believing of seeing? Your
seeing power is very, very limited. Why do you believe in seeing? That
is childish, "I cannot see." What you can see? First of all, let us
consider this point. You cannot see anything.
Paramahamsa: Srila
Prabhupada, people will be very surprised to find
out that the moon is farther away from us than the sun when they read
your..., when they read Fifth Canto.
Prabhupada: But at least,
they could not go there. Otherwise, why they
are giving up this job? They could not go there. That's a fact. Their
plan was to... They were selling land even on the moon planet.
Ambarisa: Selling land on
the moon?
Prabhupada: Yes. [laughter]
Srutakirti: They were selling
airline tickets also.
Prabhupada: Ah, yes.
[laughter] Just see, route. Pan American, yes.
They sold so many tickets. Such fools there
are.Çrutakérti
Bali-mardana: In New York sometimes people sell new immigrants the
Brooklyn Bridge.
Prabhupada: And Moscow Sea.
They pitched one flag in the moon planet
and named Moscow Sea. Yes.
Indian man: Just like you
said that this moon and other planets are
also made of these five elements—earth, water, fire, ether—they brought
a rock from there. So they are accepting that the moon is made of those
elements also. But they are not accepting that life is there.
Prabhupada: No, they'll not
accept. Therefore... therefore fools. Why?
The circumstance is the same. Why there should be no life? That is
foolishness. We have got experience. As soon as there is water, there
is life. As soon as there is land, there is life. As soon as there is
air, there is life. So where is life? No life.
Devotee (3): They may agree
in undeveloped species, but as far as
higher forms of life, they will not agree, such as humans or demigods.
Prabhupada: No, that also we
cannot agree. If there are lower species,
there must be higher species. As we see here is dog also, man also,
higher species, lower species, why not there? They can talk all
nonsense, but a nonsense will believe. No sane man will believe.
[break] ...going to meet in the space?
Ambarisa: Yes.
Prabhupada: What is the idea?
Ambarisa: It's a diplomatic
move. They feel it will make friendly
relationships between the two countries.
Indian man: They cannot meet
on the earth and they are going to meet on
the... [laughter] [break]
Prabhupada: So I am the only
man in the world challenging that "You
have not gone to the moon planet." Eh?
Harikesa: Is it possible
there's some difference as to the definition
of what the moon planet is? They will say that the moon planet is that
planet out there. Do we agree? At night?
Prabhupada: What is your
definition? First of all let me hear.
Harikesa: I'm still wondering
myself.
Prabhupada: We have got our
definition.
Harikesa: What do we call
those planets that rotate around Jupiter and
Saturn and... They will say those are also moons.
Prabhupada: Yes. Different
planets, different position. Just like this
sun planet is fiery. There is fire. Similarly, in moon planet there is
fire, but it is surrounded by cold atmosphere. Therefore it is cooling.
Harikesa: So that's the
specific characteristic of this moon?
Prabhupada: Which moon? Yes,
this is...
Harikesa: Our moon.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: So the other moons
that rotate around Saturn and Jupiter...
Prabhupada: Other moon? There
is no other moon.
Harikesa: So they're just
planets?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Paramahamsa: The moon is not
rotating around the earth. The moon is
further away than the sun.
Harikesa: The moon is further
away than the sun. Wow! [laughs]
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Why does it seem
like the moon is...
Prabhupada: Seen? Who has
seen it? First of all let me..., who has seen
it? [Devotees are laughing]
Harikesa: There's nothing you
can say.
Ambarisa: Prabhupada, you
said the other day that pretty soon all these
lies will be exposed.
Prabhupada: They are already
exposed because they have left that
expedition. That means they are hopeless. That is exposed. But foolish
people will not ask them that "Why you have stopped this expedition?"
They will again go on bluffing, and they will accept. That is the
position. Now people should ask them, "Why you have stopped moon
expedition and Venus expedition? You proposed you were going there,
making arrangement. Why you have stopped?" It is failure.
Harikesa: They might argue...
Prabhupada: What is the
argument? You have stopped. That is your
failure, that's all. You can argue to the laymen, foolish men, but we
will say you have stopped; therefore it is failure. All bogus
propaganda is now stopped.
Devotee (3): They are saying
the moon isn't worth develop...
Prabhupada: Now they cannot
say anything because they are failure.
Anything they say, that is all foolishness. They cannot say anything.
Once you are failure, you have no value, anything you say.
Harikesa: I've heard the
argument that when they are going to the moon,
they are always in contact, bouncing off these sonar waves and radar
waves off the moon's surface, and when they are coming near, they can
even see from their little portholes the moon's surface, the same moon
that they see on the earth.
Prabhupada: They say all
nonsense. That's all. [chuckles] Why the earth
is not brilliant at night like the moon?
Bali-mardana: It depends on
where you are. It depends on where you are
looking from.
Prabhupada: "Where you are"
means?
Harikesa: They have pictures
from the moon taken of the earth.
Prabhupada: Pictures? First
of all you see. Then take picture. You
cannot see.
Harikesa: They use all these
things to argue that they actually did go
to the moon.
Prabhupada: What is the
meaning of argument if they have stopped? That
is failure. Don't talk nonsense anymore.
Phalena parichiyate. By the result we have to understand. Your
result is you are failure. Then what is the use of talking nonsense?
Stop this nonsense.
Ambarisa: It's like five
years ago they declared a war on cancer, and
they spent billions and billions of dollars on it, and just the other
day they now said that it was a complete failure, that the disease has
just kept on growing and growing.
Prabhupada: Yes. You cannot
stop even cancer disease and you are
controlling nature. Just see their (?) false, puffed up. They cannot
control one disease, and they are going to control nature. We have to
believe that.
Harikesa: He just told me I
was spaced out because I wasn't punching
this in, but I'm still astounded by the fact that the moon is further
away than the sun. When the devotees hear this tape, they're not going
to believe it.
Prabhupada: Therefore they
could not go. I... First of all I said that
they might have gone to the Rahu planet.
Harikesa: Yes, the Fourth
Canto.
Prabhupada: Yes. First of all
my conviction: they have gone nowhere.
They have simply staged in their laboratory, that's all.
Indian man: Anyone can do
that, bring some pictures and bring a rock.
Paramahamsa: Srila
Prabhupada, I think somebody might have told you
before, but there was a big scandal right after the moon shot when they
said they went to the moon and..., that it was all staged in the desert
of Arizona, that they...
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the
fact.
Bali-mardana: When
Purusottama heard that, he blooped. [Devotees
continue laughing.]
Prabhupada: Yes. In 1968 I
was questioned by the reporters, "What is
your opinion about this moon?" "It is simply a waste of time and
energy, that's all. It is all false propaganda." I told to the reporter.
Harikesa: Actually, these
scientists and philosophers, they become very
famous and popular by coming up with some brand new theories. So why
don't we widely publicize our theories?
Devotee (3): [break] ...real
information about the moon from the Bhagavatam?
Prabhupada: Veda.
Veda means knowledge.
Harikesa: Srila Prabhupada,
do we say that they've gone to Rahu simply
to placate them?
Prabhupada: No, accidentally
they went to Rahu. Maybe. That is also
not...
Indian man: [break]...gone at
all outside this atmosphere of earth.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break]
...haven't gone to moon planet, that is my...
[break] ...why they will give it up? That is the proof. America was
found by Columbus. So many people came from Europe and utilized it. So
if they would have gone to moon planet, they would have utilized it.
But they have not gone. That is the fact.
Paramahamsa: That was their
original proposal, that they can utilize
it, make colonies there.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Yes.
Devotee (3): The moon
exploration, because they thought that we cannot
use the moon like Columbus, they used America.
Prabhupada: That is your
excuse.
Paramahamsa: They say it's
too much like the desert.
Harikesa: That's cause they
were in the desert. [laughs]
Prabhupada: [break] ...grow
so many nice dates, you know that? You
cannot say in the desert there is no...
Paramahamsa: Oh, yes. Arabia
they grow.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. [break]
...desert nice watermelon will grow. Yes.
Nice dates. So people go there, take the dates and take the watermelon.
Krishna has provided food even there. [break]
Harikesa: Would one see gross
form on a subtle planet?
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Harikesa: Like the moon
planet is heavenly planet. They're supposed to
have subtle bodies there. So would there be any gross forms?
Prabhupada: Why subtle body?
That is material body.
Harikesa: So we would not be
able to see any traces of a civilization?
Prabhupada: There is
civilization. You have not gone there, rascal. You
are simply imagining. [Devotees laugh] There is civilization. First
thing is, you rascal, you did not go. You are talking only nonsense.
That's it.
Paramahamsa: [break] ...Rahu
planet, that's a hellish planet?
Prabhupada: Yes. They might
have gone to that hellish planet. That's
all.
Bali-mardana: No wonder they
left.
Paramahamsa: That seems more
befitting them.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes!
Bali-mardana: They were not
qualified to go to the moon, so Krishna
sent them there.
Prabhupada: Yes, they are not
qualified. Even in this planet, unless
one is bona fide, he is not allowed to enter America. How you can go to
the moon planet? That is demigods' planet.
Harikesa: Some of the
astronauts became very religious after they
supposedly went.
Prabhupada: Yes, they are
intelligent, that "This is all nonsense. Real
thing is God." That is... They come to their senses. They are
intelligent. [break] ...real business is to enhance your Krishna
consciousness. These people, they are wasting time simply to know
something else. There is no limit. Klishyanti ye
kevala-bodha-labdhaye. What is moon planet? What business you
have got to know the...? Whatever is stated in the shastra,
accept it, that's all. What is the use of experiment and going there
and then again say, "Oh, it is all failure." Simply waste of time. The
arrangement is there by God. That's all. Spending so much money,
hard-earned money, unnecessarily and then say, "Oh, it is failure."
Paramahamsa: If they were a
little bit intelligent and had some
knowledge of the Vedas, they would learn that they could
go there...
Prabhupada: The knowledge is
already there. Just like I am speaking. I
am not a scientist. On the knowledge of Vedas
, that's all.
Paramahamsa: Yes. Just like
you have said in the Easy Journey to
Other Planets, you can go there by the mystic yoga
process. You don't have to make some space machine.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ambarisa: The scientists want
to go there without performing any kind
of austerities.
Prabhupada: But there is
austerities.
Paramahamsa: Yeah, actually
they end up performing greater austerity.
Prabhupada: You have to earn
money with so much labor and spend it for
nothing.
Paramahamsa: Billions of
dollars. Some of them are working like madmen.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Paramahamsa: They work all
day and most of the night. [break]
Prabhupada: ...expedition is
exposition of the scientists: useless. But
these materialistic persons will be cheated again and again. Punah
punash charvita-carvananam [Srimad-Bhagavatam
7.5.30]. The scientists will propose something else and they will
accept. They will never say that "You are failure in your moon
expedition. Why you are proposing again something nonsense?" They will
never ask. They will pay me, "Yes."
Ambarisa: The government
doesn't want the people in general to know
that the scientists are failures because they feel that the people will
be put into a lot of anxiety because of this. So they...
Prabhupada: No, they are
already in anxiety. This material world means
anxiety. So many problems there are. Sada samudvigna-dhiyam
asad-grahat [Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.5.5]. Because they
accepted this material world as all in all, samudvigna, they
are full of anxiety. Just like if you are on a boat and if you know
that after some hours the boat will be drowned, then can you remain
without anxiety?
Paramahamsa: They have some
relief, though, because they think that the
scientists will be able to protect them.
Prabhupada: This is their
position. This is their position. Just like
we are in this car, but we know it, that any moment there can be
accident. So how we can be without anxiety? In the material world, on
account of this material condition, we are not going to stay here.
There must be anxiety. But if we close our eyes, that is different
thing. Otherwise it is full of anxiety. [break] "... be free from
anxiety, then surrender to Me. What I say, do it." That he will not do.
They will manufacture their own way of life. They must be in anxiety.
They will never hear what Krishna says. And our propaganda is that
"Just you become Krishna conscious, and you will be happy." This is
our... That they will not do.
Ambarisa: ...'60, 1960. When
did they start to go to the moon?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ambarisa: I think President
Kennedy started the program in 1960.
Prabhupada: Sending dog first
of all?
Ambarisa: Yeah, mice and then
monkeys and...
Prabhupada: [break]
...desert. But here we find, within the desert,
petrol. Why not get petrol there and solve your power problem. Can I
not raise this question?
Ambarisa: How would they get
it back from the moon?
Prabhupada: There will be
petrol. You take it.
Ambarisa: How would they get
it back here?
Prabhupada: As they are
coming. They are going and coming. So let them
go, and if the surface is desert, then find out oil within.
Paramahamsa: But their answer
would be: "Well, even if we found oil, it
would be impossible to bring it to the earth."
Indian man: They can make up
tanks.
Prabhupada: No, you can make
devices, fill it up, and throw it.
[laughter] [break] ...mad, you should give them mad suggestion.
[laughter] [end]
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