Paramahamsa: You have quoted a great
English Poet who says that "Man has created the city..."
Prabhupada: Ah, yes.
Paramahamsa: "...and God has
created the country."
Prabhupada: This is the
statement of Mr.
Cowper. Man has created nothing. Suppose this building, man has
created. But wherefrom the ingredient comes. Has man created? This
stone, man has created? Eh? What do you think? Is this stone, creation
Prabhupada: Then what... You
have done the work of a laborer. That's all. You have taken ingredients
from God and worked hard and transformed into a step. That's all. Your
creation means just like carpenter creates a furniture. That's all.
That is his creation. Then that is... The economic law says that man
cannot create anything. He can simply transform. These trees, has man
created these trees? Why do they claim man has created everything?
Pusta-krsna: But they will
say that they made the garden.
Pusta-krsna: They will say
that they made a very nice garden.
Prabhupada: That's all. That
is the business of gardener, servant, not creator. That is the business
of the servant. Just like I keep a gardener servant, and "Do like this.
Do like that." That is not he is creator. It is my money which has
created. Therefore it is Krishna's, everything. That is Krishna
consciousness, that you have not created anything. You are servant. You
are working, and Krishna is giving you your subsistence. That's all. So
why don't you accept that you are servant of God instead of claiming
that you have created. What you have created? This is our challenge. Am
I right or wrong?
Prabhupada: Yes. What you
Paramahamsa: Life becomes so
artificial. In the big city, people don't see that they depend on God.
Prabhupada: No, no. City or
country, that I don't say that Mr. Cowper is perfect in his statement.
City is also created by God. City is also created by God. God has given
you the ingredients, He has given you the intelligence, and you create.
Eh? Wherefrom you get the intelligence? Eh? Who will answer this?
Wherefrom the man gets his intelligence?
Pusta-krsna: From Krishna.
Prabhupada: Yes. What is the
Prabhupada: Ah. Mattah
smritir jnanam apohanam cha [Bhagavad-gita 15.15].
Sarvasya chaham hridi sannivishtah. So He is sitting
in everyone's heart, and He's giving intelligence. And because the
intelligence comes from God, therefore one is more intelligent, one is
less intelligent. Because intelligence is not his. It is by the mercy
of God one gets more intelligence, one gets less intelligence. So
intelligence is supplied by God.
Yogesvara: Yet... But they
claim to have found a way of making people biologically more
Yogesvara: The scientists
claim that they have found a way of making babies more intelligent.
Prabhupada: That, they are
dipping in so many things. Therefore we kick on their face, that say,
promise, so many things, but cannot do anything. That is the defect of
the so-called scientists. They are promising, "By scientific method, we
shall make man deathless." Do they not say?
Prabhupada: But have they
made him deathless? Simply a dream. That's all. Utopian dream.
Bhagavan: Even if they
succeed in one area of doing something they promise...
Bhagavan: ...they create
something that they didn't want to. They create some other problem that
they didn't expect.
Prabhupada: What they have
created? They are creating... But still dependent. Suppose they have
created this horseless carriage. Now they are crying, "Where is the
petrol? Where is the petrol?" So if God does not supply petrol, then
all these horseless carriage will be pieces of tin. That's all.
Prabhupada: Can you create
Prabhupada: Then what is the
value of your, this horseless carriage? You are dependent on God. What
you have created? And what you can do? You can create war only to
fight, man to man, and when you are in danger, then you go to church;
"God save us. God save us." That you can create. And as far as
peacefully living, accepting God as the Supreme, you can create war.
That's all. That means... Like dogs, they create war. So this is a nice
park. Why do you go so far? It is nice park. Now you create something
to enjoy. Just like who created this building? Napoleon?
French Devotee (1): No.
French Devotee (1): It's not
by Napoleon. It's just...
Paramahamsa: What is it from?
French Devotee (2): It's a
French Devotee (1): It's new.
It's not hundred years old. It's called Marine Museum, Museum of the
Paramahamsa: It's a museum
Prabhupada: The man who
created, he's kicked out. "Get out!" What did he do? "I have created
this thing. I must enjoy." Why he's kicked out? Why?
Pusta-krsna: Because it is
actually not his property.
Prabhupada: What is the
answer? Why you are kicked out? Answer somebody.
Pusta-krsna: It's just like
Bhagavan: He's not the real
Prabhupada: Therefore... Yes.
And not only kicked out. Who knows that he has been given a different
body, maybe cats and dogs? So what is the value of this creation?
Suppose I create this building, and on account of mentality, nature
gives me next body a dog, and... Then what is my profit?
Yogesvara: Yeah, there was
that man who came to see you a couple of days ago. His argument was
that we can't really say for sure because it's not perceivable that we
will take a dog's body. But at least this is something we can
understand. Here's something, a nice accomplishment.
Prabhupada: But you
understand, but you can understand also that you'll be kicked out.
Don't you understand this?
Bhagavan: He doesn't know it.
Prabhupada: Eh? Therefore,
he's a fool.
Bhagavan: There's a statement
that says that...
Prabhupada: Just like suppose
if I do something here in Paris, and if you say, "Sir, as soon as your
visa is finished, you'll be kicked out," shall I be interested to
create anything? That is intelligence, that "I will be kicked out after
two months. Why shall I construct such a big scheme?" That is
intelligence. So these rascals know that he'll be kicked out. Still, he
works day and night for collecting bricks and stones and he becomes a
big man. Mean a foolish rascal, he is considered a big man. Therefore shva-vid-varahoshtra-kharaih
samstutah purushah pashuh [Srimad-Bhagavatam
Paramahamsa: People argue
that "God has given us our intelligence and our senses, and therefore
we must enjoy."
Prabhupada: Yes. You enjoy.
The dog is also enjoying. What you are enjoying more than the dog? Dog
also eat. You also eat. Dog also sleep. You also sleep. Dogs also enjoy
sex life. You also enjoy sex life. Dog is also afraid of his enemy. You
are also afraid of your enemy. So what is the difference between you
and dog? Why you claim that you have become very great? What is the
difference between the dog's mentality and your mentality? God has
given you intelligence to understand that you are nothing, God is
everything. Just realize it. That is intelligence. That is
intelligence. When you understand that "God is great. I am His
servant," that is real realization. That is his intelligence.
Otherwise, he's exactly like the dog. What is his intelligence?
Paramahamsa: But people today
have reasoned God is dead with their intelligence.
Prabhupada: God is not dead.
Your intelligence is dead. You have got a dead body, and you are proud
of it. Eh? Decoration of the dead body. And you are decorating the dead
body. The body's dead. That's a fact. Because as soon as you, soul, get
out, it is dead body. But the body's already there. That means I am
occupying a dead body. So long I am there, it is working only. But the
body's dead. And you are decorating the dead body. You are so
intelligent. You are interested with a dead body. And you have no
intelligence to see that actually it is dead body. Because as soon as I
will go away, it is dead body. The body is dead, but... Just like motor
car. It is dead. If there is no petrol, it is dead. Similarly, your
body is dead. Now try to understand. And if somebody decorates a dead
body, is he very intelligent?
Prabhupada: Then? Your all
acquisition is decoration of the dead body. That is a verse, apranasya
hi dehasya mandanam loka-ranjanam. Loka-ranjanam. You
can get some rascal and fool, some applause, "Oh, you are so nice. You
are decorating dead body." But intelligent man will say "What a fool he
is that he's decorating a dead body. That's all."