What is the Next Step in Our Evolution?

Bali-mardana: The scientists say that in the beginning of the planet there were only little bacteria and algae.

Prabhupada: His father, his great-grandfather. The scientists' great-grandfather, bacteria. Because from that bacteria his father developed and he was born, so therefore the bacteria his great-grandfather.

Bali-mardana: Yes, they say that.

Prabhupada: Yes, that's all right. Then how you got so much knowledge?

Bali-mardana: From fossils.

Prabhupada: From bacteria? How rascals they are.

Bali-mardana: Prabhupada, in the Bhagavatam it also states that there are nine divisions of creation, and that in the first creation there's the plants and trees.

Prabhupada: That's all right, but these different bodies, and the soul is transmigrating, that they do not know. The soul is getting a different type of body according to his desires, not the body is developing. This I have explained many times, that you get the apartment according to the rent you are able to pay, not that a small apartment is becoming a skyscraper building. That is their theory.

Bali-mardana: But is there a great time period between the different divisions of the creation?

Prabhupada: No, everything is there already. It becomes manifest. Just like beneath the water there is land already. And when the water will dry, land will be manifest. Not that the land is created. No, it is already there. [break] Guru Krpa: ...told us last time that actually the earth did not come out of the water, but the water receded, and this is how this Hawaii came.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Guru Krpa: There was water covering everything, and then the water receded, and then the land was there.

Prabhupada: Yes. No. From creative method, from water, land has come.

Bali-mardana: Yes. Gross to..., from subtle to gross.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Bali-mardana: There are different devastations by water as well.

Prabhupada: Yes. [break] There is a Bengali proverb, adar vapare yahare khabor (?): A man is dealing with ginger. So ginger is used... Suppose we take ginger, a few small pieces. You cannot expect ginger selling in wagons. [laughs] Ginger is accepted—you purchase one or two pieces, that's all. So a merchant dealing in ginger is asking, "What is the fare of one big freight? I shall take ginger that." He is selling only two pieces, and he's taking information of a big freighter. Similarly, these rascals, they are dealing with small things and contemplate describing life. What about that moon expedition?

Bali-mardana: Rocks.

Prabhupada: No, rocks, that is the last. Now what is the latest news?

Bali-mardana: They want to send a satellite to the other planets.

Prabhupada: Moon finished?

Bali-mardana: Yes, it is not good for... It is too much money. They cannot afford it.

Guru Krpa: It's nothing but rocks anyway there. They think it is nothing but rocks so why waste time, go to some other place.

Prabhupada: Oh. Grapes are sour.

Guru Krpa: Yes.

Prabhupada: Jackal. Jackal and the grapes. The grapes were high. First of all jumped, jumping. Then, when he could not get it, "This is useless. It is sour."

Devotee (1): They didn't reach moon at all.

Prabhupada: At all. Jumping, jumping, the jackal says, "Oh, it is no use. It is sour."

Devotee (1): I've seen those rocks, moon rocks. They didn't seem much different than our rocks.

Prabhupada: No, no, it is all bogus propaganda. I told it in 1968. No, no, not '68-'58, in my book, Easy Journey to Other Planets. All childish. Then I told in San Francisco in 1968, like that. They asked me, the press reporter, "What is your opinion?" "It is all useless waste of time and energy."

Bali-mardana: Now they will have to agree with you. It's so much trouble. But the thing is that the scientists will lose their jobs if they do not make people want to go to... useless things.

Prabhupada: Yes. But one thing is the people in general, they are so rubbish and brainless that they believe. They do not use their common sense. I am also one of the member, but I use my common sense. We have read from the Vedic literature the moon planet is influencing the vegetation in this planet, and there is no vegetation? The moon planet... These are explained that influencing vegetation in this planet.

Bali-mardana: Some big, big scientists, they had a convention about evolution and geology, but they made a rule at the beginning that during the convention no one could bring up the subject of divine creation or God. And then they will discuss.

Prabhupada: Now they are going to, I mean to say, hold a convention that life is from chemicals. Our Svarupa Damodara told. Japan it is going to be held. And by their resolution, it will be accepted. But they cannot create.

Bali-mardana: But I had one question. Is it possible to create a suitable environment for life to enter?

Prabhupada: Life enters into the matter. Then it comes out with a particular type of body. The soul enters in the womb of the mother and the mother gives the body. The soul comes through the semina of the father, and then the mother's ovum and father's semina mix together, creates a situation for developing a body. This is the science. Without that living entity there is no question of pregnant. Simply a mixture of matter. No, that is not possible.

Guru Krpa: If the moon is illuminating the earth at night, then how come you have brought back dull pieces of rock? They should have also been shining.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is a common sense.

Devotee (2): Did they actually land on the moon, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: No, they cannot go there. What is the question of landing? They cannot go there. It is far, far away. What you calculated? 1,600,000 miles away, up the sun planet. 1,600,000 miles above the sun. According to your calculation, the sun is away from this planet by 93,000,000 miles. And above that, 1,600,000 miles. Then you go to the moon. How it is possible?

Guru Krpa: How is the moon behind the sun?

Prabhupada: Not behind, above.

Guru Krpa: It is a bigger planet?

Prabhupada: No.

Guru Krpa: In other words, to elevate oneself to the moon planet, that is harder than going to the sun planet.

Prabhupada: That is God's wish. "You can go up on Me? What is this?" Their calculation is that moon is nearer, is it not?

Guru Krpa:. Yes.

Prabhupada: But not moon is nearer; sun is nearer. And above, in the proportion, 1,600,000 miles, above moon there is Mercury, Mars, in this way, Venus. It is not so easy.

Srutakirti: The planets are not orbiting the sun.

Prabhupada: No, no. They have got their different orbits.

Guru Krpa:. This is real science, to know these facts.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guru Krpa: So how can you prove that?

Prabhupada: Vedic literature. Shruti-pramanam. Shruti means Vedas.
Where is a sitting place? [break] ...introduce that "Why you are, rascal, you are introducing all this nonsense?" Let them read this. They will become human being. That is the business of the Krishna consciousness movement. They are reading only all rubbish things and becoming rubbish. Let them read these books, and their human life will be perfect. Na yad vachash chitra-padam harer yashah: [Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.10] "The literature which does not give information of the glories of the Lord," tad vayasam tirtham, "it is just like the pleasure place of the crows." So these books are meant for the crows, without any right information, without any God's information. Tad vayasam tirtham ushanti manasah. The swans will not come there. The pleasure place of the crows is not meant for the swans. They have got different place. Our books are meant for swans, and all these literatures are meant for the crows.

Guru Krpa: The trouble is is that even if we explain these things to most people, factually their only interest is how they can eat, and how they can gratify their senses, and they take these other scientists up as the extracurricular...

Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore it is said, bhogaishvarya-prasaktanam tayapahrita- chetasam [Bhagavad-gita 2.44]. "Those who have lost their identity, being captivated by bhoga, [enjoyment], and aishvarya, [opulence], they cannot understand." Bhogaishvarya-prasaktanam. Maya-sukhaya bharam udvahatah. For slight, so-called happiness they are making big, big problems (projects?). Maya... bharam. Bharam means big, big problems. (projects?). And sometimes they put forward their whim for the next generation. Now, if Darwin's theory accepted, the monkeys never thought of the next generation, so how you have got this consciousness? Why you are thinking of your next generation? What is the argument? The monkey cannot think that Mr. Nixon will come, become president of this or that, U.S.A. So how he became president without your thinking of the, your forefathers, monkeys? So why you are thinking of your generation? Your forefathers did not.

Bali-mardana: Yes, but by Darwinism they become reduced to just animals, no better than monkeys.

Prabhupada: Yes, it is meant for the monkeys, not for any sane gentleman. Sane gentleman will think that "I have become now... By evolution I have come to this stage human being. What is next? And that is sane.

Guru Krpa: That is a good argument.

Prabhupada: He will think, "What is next? Is it finished here?" The rascal says, "No, after finishing, everything is finished." What is this? If there is evolution—you have come to this stage—then what is the next stage? That is natural. That is answered in the Bhagavad-gita: Yanti deva-vrata devan [Bg. 9.25]. Now you can go to the moon planet if you try. Moon planet, sun planet, Venus and so many. If you become serious. And you can go to God's planet, mad-yajino 'pi yanti mam. Now you select where will you will go. But there is spiritual planet. But what is their theory? That after finishing this body, everything is finished. They do not believe in the next life.

Bali-mardana: Therefore their life must be hopeless.

Prabhupada: Hopeless, yes.