Svarup Damodar: In physical sciences,
there's a branch called thermodynamics that deals with the transfer of
heat and energy in different forms. So their three laws are called
first law, second law and the third law. First law deals with the
conservation of energy in different forms. And the second law, it is
stated that the energy of the universe is constant. Just like the, in
the Sri Ishopanishad, the Invocation, purna...
Svarup Damodar: On the other
hand the second law says that the, the entropy, that means the
randomness of the all natural, spontaneously occurring natural
processes, always increase. The randomness...
Prabhupada: But... Thing is
that they are studying the laws very nicely. That's good. But they
should appreciate that who has made this law? That is their defect.
They are studying how the laws of nature is working. That's nice. But
they should appreciate at the same time: Who made such subtle laws that
they are working so nicely? That is our philosophy. We do not only
study the laws and appreciate it, but we study the law-maker also. That
is the difference between ourself and the so-called scientists. They
are left, poor fund of knowledge. They cannot appreciate that there is
a law-maker of these subtle laws. That is their defect. That is called
poor fund of knowledge. And as soon as we accept law-maker, we have to
accept that He's a person, He has got brain. Therefore He can make
laws. Just like the great ocean is working, but there is a law. It
cannot come here. Although there is potency. At any second it can cover
the whole city But there is a law. Just like state laws. Up to this. No
more admission. You have to stop. Similarly, there is law of God where
there is order: You mighty ocean, you cannot come beyond this. This is
law. There is sun. "You must rise at half-past, at five o'clock in the
morning." "Yes, sir." This is law. "You must rise on the Eastern side."
"Yes, Sir." Not whimsically. Sometimes this side, sometimes that side,
sometimes that side. Cannot do whimsically. That is law of nature. And
behind the law of nature, there is the order-giver, law-maker. This is
perfect knowledge. Mayadhyakshena prakritih suyate sa-characharam
[Bhagavad-gita 9.10]. "Under My superintendence, the laws
of nature is working." This is intelligence. We are teaching people
this intelligence. That's all. We don't decry that your studying of the
laws of nature is useless. We don't say that. We say: "Not so much.
This is imperfect. Go forward still." And that is perfection.
are a science student. By your scientific knowledge, you prove that
behind these laws, there is Krishna. Then your scientific knowledge is
perfect. Either from the chemical department or physical department or
electrical department. Any department. It doesn't matter. Through that
department you go to the ultimate center. Just like here is center. And
there are so many spokes. So many spokes. So whichever spoke you may
be, come to the center. That is your perfection. The spokes may be of
different direction. Like that. But center is Krishna. The energy,
central energy is Krishna. Atah pumbhir dvija-shreshtha
varnashrama-vibhagashah, svanushthitasya dharmasya samsiddhir
hari-toshanam [Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.13].
these, these living entities, they're flying. They have got
intelligence. "The men are coming. We shall be smashed." They're
flying, taking shelter. Defence. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-mai...
Defence, defence measures. They know how to defend themselves in their
own way. Similarly they know how to eat and similarly they know how to
sleep. But what is the difference between this insect and me? I can
talk of God, I can understand God. It cannot. That is the difference. I
can study Vedic literature, so many facilities for me. But all these
facilities, all this intelligence, I am utilizing for the same purpose,
eating, sleeping, sex and defence. Therefore it is useless waste of
time, waste of life, valuable life. What is their benefit? Suppose you
are studying that this law is working like that, this law is working
like that, but you cannot help. You cannot change the law. You are
under the laws. So what is the benefit simply by studying?
Svarup Damodar: They get some
pleasure. Just knowing the law.
Prabhupada: That, that is
sense gratification. That is sense gratification. Tesham klesho
vashishyate. For that sense gratification, he's working so hard,
spending so much money, but the result is that, taking labor is their
business. That's all. No benefit, no other benefit. Tesham
klesha eva vashishyate. Nanyat, yatha sthula tusha-khandana.
Just like you have taken the rice from the paddy. So now it is only
skin. And if you try to employ that machine, Deki—what is
What you'll gain?
yes. Simply dag da dag da dag dak [imitates sound of threshing
machine]. But the rice is already taken away. So their labor is being
spoiled in that way. For the pleasure's sake, they are spoiling the
human facilities. This is their intelligence. Therefore Bhaktivinoda
Thakura says: jada-vidya jato mayara vaibhava tomara bhajane
badha, anitya samsare moha janamiya jibake karaye gadha. This jada-vidya,
this material science, is simply a hindrance to our progress of
spiritual life. All these rascal scientists, they'll deny God. That is
their business. Just like you said yesterday that somebody was
accepting God, and the other scientists, they thought: "No, it is
insult." So already they are in oblivion. They cannot understand what
is God. And these rascals are making them more and more rascals. "There
is no God." By their scientific research, the rascals are becoming more
rascals. And they're becoming captivated: "This is pleasure."
...Therefore they are, they are
gadha. They are gadha and they are creating gadhas.
That is the song of Bhaktivinoda Thakura.
Jada-vidya jato mayara... It is expansion of maya's
illusory energy. The so-called scientific advancement is simply
expanding the influence of maya's illusory energy. They're
already rascals and fools, and still they are being made rascals and
fools. So they're forgetting their real purpose of life and the whole
human life is spoiled. This is the result of so-called scientific
Thakura also says that the modern education makes men just like an ass.
Prabhupada: That is, I am
explaining. Just like this, what is called, anthropology?
Anthropology. It is a false theory, and upon this so many universities
are spending money, professors. Thousands. Rascal theory. You see. In
this way, they're wasting money. Shrama eva hi kevalam
[SB 1.2.8]. Avishuddha-buddhayah [SB 10.2.32].
Karandhara: They always have
to revise their theories because about every few years they find
something new which contradicts everything they have said before.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is
Brahmananda: And they think
Prabhupada: Yes. Progress in
one sense. Because they're rascals, making little progress.
Svarup Damodar: Advancing in
the wrong direction.
Prabhupada: But the real
progress is that when they will understand that: "We are rascals." That
will be real progress, when they come to understand that: "We are all
fools and rascals." That will be real progress. Just like Chaitanya
Mahaprabhu presented Himself that: "My Guru Maharaja found me a rascal
number one. Yes." That is real progress.
Svarup Damodar: Science is
nearing that stage. Science...
Prabhupada: Because they're
going to accept that they're all rascals? That will be the real
progress. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate
[Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births of rascaldom, when he comes to
Krishna and surrenders. Yes. Vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg.
7.19]. He is everything. That is real knowledge.
Svarup Damodar: A group of
scientists are now working on the idea that before we start anything,
one should think...
Prabhupada: No, there is the
latest theory. What is this, theory of ignorance? Or what is that?
Theory of impossibility, or something like that?
Karandhara: Oh, theory of
Prabhupada: Uncertainty, yes.
Theory of uncertainty. Everything is uncertain. And that is little
intelligence. That, how to find out the certainty.
Svarup Damodar: The
scientists, they claim that the discoveries are accidental and
incidental, by accident, by chance.
Prabhupada: What is this?
That means they're fools.
Svarup Damodar: In many
instances, when they try to find out something, they do not find the
real one that they want, but in between, along the way, they find
something else. So that is why they call it by accident. Because they
did not aim for that, but somehow they get it along the way. [break]
Prabhupada: [speaking of the
sea gulls?] ... also know how to keep pace with the big, big waves.
They know how to do it. They're not afraid of big waves.
Svarup Damodar: They know
that the wave is coming. They run because they know that the wave is
Prabhupada: Yes. And they
know how to go forward and come back. Who has taught them this
discipline? Krishna is there, within. Sarvasya chaham hridi
sannivishtho mattah smritir jnanam apohanam cha [Bg. 15.15].
Krishna is dictating: "Now you go forward. Now you come back. Here is
your food." He's giving intelligence. Sarvasya chaham hridi
sannivishtho mattah smritir jnanam apohanam cha [Bg. 15.15].
He's giving direction in every living entity, but when a human being,
He gives direction, if he surrenders, that: "Go this way. You'll come
to Me." Dadami buddhi-yogam tam yena mam upayanti te. And
that is human intelligence. So far these lower animals are concerned,
they are given, being given intelligence how to eat, how to sleep, how
to mate, how to defend. But a human being, if he engages himself in the
service of the Lord, then Lord will give intelligence how to come back
to home, back to Godhead. This is stated in the Bhagavad-gita.
That is the condition. Tesham satata-yuktanam bhajatam
priti-purvakam [Bg. 10.10]. "Only to those who are engaged in
devotional service with love and faith, I give him intelligence how to
come back to home, back to Godhead." Therefore, after coming to human
form of body, we must awaken our intelligence about understanding the
Supreme Lord. And if we take up the process sincerely, with love, then
Lord within will give you dictation: "You come this way, come this way,
come this way." Otherwise, not. The first condition is:
tesham satata-yuktanam. Therefore
we are trying to engage all our disciples to be engaged twenty-four
hours in devotional service. Then his life will be successful. That is
our Krishna consciousness movement. Satata. Satata means
always, constantly. Just like we are walking, but we are engaged in
Krishna consciousness. Others are walking. They're wasting time. But we
are, we are walking, but, at the same time, we are engaged in Krishna
consciousness. We are eating. We are engaged in Krishna consciousness.
We are sleeping. We are engaged in Krishna consciousness. We are
... Always. Then Krishna will see: "Now he's serious. Let him have some
intelligence, how he can come back to home." This is the process. And
the pleasure of sense gratification, oh, that is also known how to do
it by the hogs and dogs. They know. The hogs are eating everything, up
to stool, for sense gratification. So the human being, if they have no
discrimination, they can eat anything and everything for sense
gratification, they are no better than hogs. What is the difference
between hog and human being? The hog has no discrimination of eating.
Anything it will eat, up to stool. So if a human being becomes like
hog, without any discrimination, he will eat anything, that is
advancement of civilization? Advancement of becoming hog. That's all.