Jayatirtha: He begins in the
ocean. He says that some fish-type animal climbed out of the ocean and
began to breathe the air.
Prabhupada: Then wherefrom
the ocean came?
Devotee: He doesn't say.
Sri Govinda: In the beginning
on the planet there was great turbulence and the oceans were stirring,
and then there was some lightning charge.
Prabhupada: Wherefrom the
lightning came? And wherefrom the ocean came? Where his philosophy is?
It is a speculation.
Sri Govinda: It all began
from a primeval explosion.
Prabhupada: Then same
question, wherefrom the explosion came?
Satsvarupa: They say that
explosion began at time zero.
Satsvarupa: Time zero.
Prabhupada: Time zero?
Satsvarupa: Time began then,
at time zero. And they say that if you ask the question, "What was
before that?" that's not a logical, sensible question.
Satsvarupa: They say it's a
question that should not even be asked.
Prabhupada: No, then you are
rascal. You are beginning from zero. How you can begin from zero?
Devotee: Everything comes
from nothing then.
Prabhupada: So that is not
Sri Govinda: They say it all
originates from a giant mass of primordial matter.
Prabhupada: Then same
comes..., that "Wherefrom the matter comes?"
Harikesa: They say it's an
Prabhupada: That is another
nonsense, another rascaldom. Where is the accident? Nothing is
accident, everything is cause and effect. We say that in the beginning
there was God or word of God. In Bible they say?
Prabhupada: So God was there
and God's word was there. That is the beginning, our beginning. Janmady
asya yatah [Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.1.1]. Aham
evasam agre. And
Bhagavad-gita, aham sarvasya prabhavah mattah sarvam
pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. This is our philosophy, "Everything
begins from God." Now you can say, "Wherefrom God came?" But that is
God. God existing, He is not caused by any other cause, He is the
original cause. Anadir adih: "He has no beginning, but He
is the beginning of everything." This is conception of God. Anadir
adir govindah [Brahma-samhita 5.1]. That adi
is Govinda, person, Krishna. Krishna says, aham adir hi devanam
[Bg 10.2]. We find from the history. Brahma is the beginning. He is deva,
one of the demigods. Krishna says, aham adir hi devanam.
So He is the cause of Brahma also. So this is our philosophy. We don't
begin from zero or accident. This is not our philosophy.
Harikesa: Darwin never tried
to understand the...
Prabhupada: No, no, he
admitted that he speculated. He is not a philosopher, he is a
speculator. He has admitted that "It is my speculation. I think like
Harikesa: He started his
speculation from the creation of life. He didn't...
speculation is not science nor philosophy. We don't admit. No
Satsvarupa: They call the Vedas
speculation. They say the Upanishads are speculation.
Prabhupada: No, no, no, not
speculation. Ishopanishad, ishavasyam idam sarvam
[Ishopanishad mantra 1], everything beginning from isha,
the supreme controller... Where is speculation?
Tamal Krsna: They say that
the Vedas are written by man so they are imperfect.
Prabhupada: So you are less
than a dog. It is written by man. That's all right. But you are less
than a dog. You have no reason, no right. What is your philosophy? What
is the value of your philosophy? It is speculation. We don't say, "It
is written by man." Apaurusheya. They may say whatever they...,
we don't say. If somebody says, "Your father name is that," and I know
my father's name. "What you are? You are not authority to say what is
my father's name. I know very well." So it is their suggestion like
that, "Your father's name is this." We don't say that "My father name
is..." Is that very good suggestion? You don't know anything of my
family. How you say that "Your father name is this?" Is it not another
rascaldom? You do not know anything about my family, and you say that
"Your father's name is this." What is this logic? You cannot say what
is my father's name. You do not know about my family.
Harikesa: Darwin's whole
theory rests on the fact, the speculation, that he can show bones. They
take these bones and these evidences, archeological...
Prabhupada: Anyway, it is not
possible that he has seen all the bones. That is not possible. So
taking it that he has studied by seeing the bones, but I can say very
easily that it is not possible for a person like you to see all the
bones. That is my challenge. How you can say that you have seen all the
bones? You say, "Millions and millions of years ago..." You live for
fifty years. How you have seen all the bones? That is imperfect. You
are a limited person. How it is possible that you have seen all the
bones? What is the answer?
Satsvarupa: They say they
haven't found all the bones, but what they've found is conclusive
Prabhupada: But then you
cannot do that. If you have seen all the bones, then you can conclude.
You say, "Some of the missing." So how it is fact? You did not see it.
Satsvarupa: Just this year
they found a skull that was millions of years older than any human
skull they found before.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
But still, you cannot say that you have seen all the skulls. That is
Devotee: They will say they
have not even found one skull from the Vedic culture.
Prabhupada: Oh. No, Vedic
culture do not keep skull, they burn it. Therefore there is no
opportunity for you to see the Vedic culture. Then you become
defective. Because you cannot see the skulls of Vedic culture. We burn
it. So therefore your conclusion is defective.
Harikesa: So the only bones
they find are the bones of the fifth, sixth, seventh-class men.
Prabhupada: Yes, of the
monkey-class men. [laughter] That's all. Therefore you conclude that
the man comes from monkey. That is the conclusion. Human being, Vedic
culture, they burn it. So they have no opportunity to see the human
being skull. The monkeys, they do not burn. So he has seen only the
monkey skull, and his conclusion is, "Man is from monkey."
Brahmananda: Actually they
are simply interested in bones, but this is the activity of the dog.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes, he
finds, [laughter] like that. So it is dog's philosophy. Hare Krishna.
[break] ...history in the I.A., intermediate. So a big professor, Dr.
Kalidasa Nath, he began to speak, "There was stone age, simply stone
there was," in this way. And I immediately..., that "What nonsense you
are speaking, stone? There was nothing?" According to the anthropology
of Darwin... From the very beginning, when I was a student, I did not
believe this Darwin's theory. [break] ...study one after another,
chronologically, as Darwin says, skull, it is not possible at all. For
any single man it is not possible.
Tamal Krsna: 8,400,000
Prabhupada: Yes. Has he gone
down the water? Then what is the...? simply speculation.
Tamal Krsna: Factual
scientific study would mean to study all 8,400,000 species?
Prabhupada: Yes, that is
scientific study. But that is not possible. Therefore your theory is
always imperfect because you cannot say that "I have studied all." You
simply guess, "There is some gap, millions of years." So this is not
Brahmananda: They say even
there's a missing link, a part that they cannot explain. So they
Prabhupada: So that is not
Harikesa: It's the most
important part too.
Prabhupada: Therefore we say
they are rascals. And rascals will believe.
Jayatirtha: Once you said the
missing link was your foot in their face. [laughter]