Does rice give birth to scorpions?

Founder-Acharya of the world-wide Hare Krishna Movement, Brahma Sampradaya Acharya

"Posterity will one day laugh at the foolishness..."

Svarup Damodar: Now in the next slide we'll show that... Actually, there were some previous scientists who were not actually atheists, rather, they had some sort of devotee qualities. And one scientist called Pasteur, he actually proved that life cannot come from matter. That is shown in the next slide. So this is the experiment. It was in...

Prabhupada: This Pasteur? There are many Pasteur Institutes.

Svarup Damodar: This is the man, Pasteur.

Prabhupada: He has got many institutes.

Svarup Damodar: Yes, it is in his name, Pasteur. He is a famous scientist. He was a chemist and biochemist, and he did this experiment in the 1860s. Now the flask... This experiment is called a "swan-neck" experiment because the shape of the neck of the flask looks like the neck of a swan. So it is the famous "swan-neck experiment." Now, at that time, it was quite amazing that even the so-called famous Greek philosophers like Aristotle, Plato and all these philosophers, even they believed that life actually comes from matter. They had all completely materialistic view of life, completely on the bodily concept. Now, at that time...

Prabhupada: But Socrates did not believe like that.

Svarup Damodar: Socrates also believed in material concept.

Rupanuga: No, Socrates did not think he was the body.

Prabhupada: He separated body from the soul.

Rupanuga: But after Socrates they all were like that. Socrates, you said once to me, was the last philosopher in the Western world of any value. At least, he knew the difference between body and soul. But after that they all became nonsense.

Devotee: [The scientists' claim that life comes out from matter is like] arguing that rice can bring forth scorpions, he said that can happen.

Svarup Damodar: That... Prabhupada said that rice can give scorpions? Something like that, scorpion comes out of rice?

Prabhupada: Yes, tantula-vrishchika-nyaya. Tantula-vrishchika-nyaya.

Svarup Damodar: Where is this, Srila Prabhupada? Is it in...?

Prabhupada: In the Nyaya-shastra, it is there. Tantula-vrishchika-nyaya. Tantula means rice, and vrishchika means scorpion. The scorpion coming out of the heaps of rice, so therefore rice is producing scorpion. This logic is wrong.

Svarup Damodar: Yes, so but people then believed like that. So Pasteur, actually he believed strongly in God, and he wanted to disprove that theory, and, in fact, he got prize for doing this experiment from a French academy and, during that year... This flask contains sugar solution and with some yeast to ferment at the beginning. But now the experiment was to completely kill any germs inside the flask by heating, in the beginning, and then cool it down automatically and to keep for some time, about two or three days...

Prabhupada:Sterilization.

Svarup Damodar: Yes, sterilization. And then see whether there is any life developed within that broth. Now in the first flask, the neck is still attached to the flask. Now Pasteur found that there was no micro-organisms fermenting the flask, in the solution inside the flask. But after some time he cut the neck of the flask, that is in the second flask, then as soon as the neck is cut, then microorganisms from the air, surrounding air, atmosphere, entered into the flask, and then the solution is fermented. So that was actually the proof that without presence of the micro-organisms from outside, from the atmosphere, then life cannot grow into that matter.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is Vedic theory. That is explained in the Bhagavatam.

Svarup Damodar: And here he has a nice quote, Pasteur. Somebody can read that?

Hari-sauri: Says: "Posterity will one day laugh at the foolishness of the modern materialistic philosophers. The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the works of the creator."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarup Damodar: So he believed actually completely in the divine concept, divine personality. But unfortunately this experiment has been misinterpreted by these demoniac scientists.

Contraceptive method destroys the shelter

Prabhupada: That is also Vedic conception, that sex between man and woman is not the cause of life. Unless the living soul comes in the proper situation, the man's secretion, woman's secretion combined together emulsifies, and it creates a proper situation for the rest of the soul. So contraceptive method means that emulsification is disturbed. It does not create the proper situation; therefore pregnancy does not happen. Or imperfect discharge. The main point is that the two discharges, they create a situation wherein the living entity comes and rests. Then it will grow. Not that that is the cause of life. The mixture of two secretions is not the cause of life. That creates a proper situation, and the life comes. And if the situation is not favorable, the soul cannot stay. It has to go to somewhere else. So by the order of Krishna, he was to come to take shelter there, but this man and woman checked it, therefore it is sinful; he is to be punished. Just like one apartment is fixed up for me, and if somebody checks, does not allow me to enter, that is criminal. That is criminal, he is to be punished. Unlawful detention. But they do not know the laws of nature, how it is working. Prakriteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvashah [Bhagavad-gita 3.27]. The law of nature is working very silently, subtle. But they do not know. Ahankara-vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. Rascal is so fool that he thinks that "I can do everything, whatever I like." Similarly, killing of animal. "Life is eternal," one can argue, "then what is wrong? Even I kill, the soul is alive." No, the same argument that this soul was to live in a particular type of body under the laws of nature, and you have checked, and he has to take again a similar body to fulfill the duration. Therefore you have done criminality. I have got lease for live in this room for certain period. If prior to the expiry of the lease, if the landlord drives me away, that is illegal. He will be punished.

Rupanuga: That is like abortion.

Prabhupada: Everything is on that principle, that you (are) violating the laws of nature, therefore you are criminal, you have to be punished. You cannot do it. Ahankara-vimudhatma.

Rupanuga: Like if you are situated in your apartment and someone comes and forces you out of your apartment, that is like abortion.

Prabhupada: That is abortion. By force you are destroying the shelter. Therefore you are criminal.

Svarup Damodar: So we can utilize this experiment.

Prabhupada: Yes, this is... When the life comes from outside, then there is germination.

Svarup Damodar: Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes, that is the perfect theory.

Svarup Damodar: So life comes from life.

Prabhupada: As I have already explained. It is not the man and woman sex creation. The life comes from outside. The solution was there, but life comes out. The same example. The solution of man and woman is there, but life must come there. Then there will be pregnancy. Karmana daiva-netrena [Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.31.1]. Find out this, Third Canto. (pause)

Life is waiting for the favorable situation

Rupanuga: After this experiment, Srila Prabhupada, scientists reinterpreted the experiment to mean an entirely different thing. Can you explain that, Svarupa Damodara Prabhu, How they made it seem the opposite of what Pasteur intended?

Svarup Damodar: Yes, there are two interpretations. One is saying that give enough length of time, long time period in this Pasteur's experiment, then they are proposing that something is bound to happen.

Prabhupada:The same thing—you are giving more time, and here it is less time. But more time means you are expecting something to come. That is our answer. Here you are giving more time when the situation is not favorable. So more time means when the situation will be favorable the life will come from outside. That is our answer. Here the situation is favorable, the life has come immediately. But you are waiting. Waiting means you are waiting, the life coming from outside, not this solution will... Is it not? Waiting means you are just waiting for the favorable situation, to receive.

Svarup Damodar: Second point was they intend to...

Prabhupada: But this time factor is answered. You are waiting. You cannot do that. You are waiting for this favorable situation.

Rupanuga: They say wait..., "In the future, after I die..."

Prabhupada: That's all right, but why shall I wait if I can get immediately? That is intelligence.

Svarup Damodar: Yes, they are cheating.

Prabhupada: Cheating. That's all. Which can be done in few days, why shall I wait for millions of years?

Hari Sauri: That verse, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Karmana daiva-netrena? Yes.

Pusta Krsna

sri-bhagavan uvacha
karmana daiva-netrena
jantur dehopapattaye
striyah pravishta udaram
pumso retah-kanashrayah [SB 3.31.1]

"The Personality of Godhead said: Under the supervision of the Supreme Lord and according to the result of his work, the living entity, the soul, is made to enter into the womb of a woman through the particle of male semina to assume a particular type of body."

Prabhupada: The life comes from the man. The living entity takes shelter of the semina, and the semina is discharged in the womb of the woman, and if the situation is favorable, then the living entity remains there and that body develops. This is pregnancy. And that yoni, that mother, is situated, selected by daiva-netrena, by superior management: "This man has worked..., this living entity has worked in such a way, he should go to such and such womb." Then if he goes to a queen's womb he becomes a prince; if he goes to the dog's womb he becomes a dog. The mother gives the body. And the superior's order is there, "Now you must go to the dog's womb. He must go to the queen's womb." Otherwise, how it is from the birth one is prince, another is dog, if there is no superior? Who likes to become a dog? No. But according to his karma, by superior arrangement, he has to take. Karanam guna-sango 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu [Bg. 13.22]. He has infected the contamination of material modes of nature, and he must develop a type of body according to that consciousness. Just like if you contaminate some disease, germ, then you must suffer from that disease. This is the mystery of birth. Karanam guna-sango 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Otherwise, why there are difference of varieties of life? Sat, asat, something good, something bad. That he does not know. He works independently, defies the laws of nature, and becomes implicated. And on account of dull brain, he is punished, "Stand up here for ten thousands of years. Become a tree," that's all. That is the result of his dullness. "Remain here for ten thousand years, a dull brain. Even one cuts, you cannot protest. You suffer all kinds of natural disturbances." This is very sinful when you become a tree.

And they do not make any distinction between life and matter. These things are going on. There is no knowledge, and they are passing as scientist, as philosopher.

Why varieties of life? What is the scientific explanation? One life, he is prince; one life, he is tree. Why this difference? Is there any explanation? There must be some explanation. It is also life, it is also life. Why one life has got this prince body, another this tree body? Karanam..., Bhagavad-gita, karanam guna-sango 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. The cause is association of different types of material modes of nature. If you keep yourself dull as the tree, without associating with the modes of goodness, without becoming a brahmana, then you become a tree. That's all. And if you become a brahmana, then develop your association with goodness and go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore human life should be fully engaged, athato brahma jijnasa, simply for understanding Brahman. And as soon as you understand brahma-janati iti brahmana, then you are brahmana. And as soon as you are brahmana, then you act as a brahmana, sattva shamo damas titiksha arjavam jnanam vijnanam astikyam brahma-karma svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.42]. Then you become Vaishnava. When you become Vaishnava, tad vishnoh paramam padam sada pashyanti, you are hankering after Vishnu. Then your life is success.

And to keep them dull brained, like these trees and mountains, that is the greatest disservice in the human society. They have got the capacity to become a brahmana, and they are keeping him just like a dull-brained mountain and tree. That we want to stop this. It is suicidal, suicidal to the human society. They have got the chance of becoming a brahmana, and they are keeping them as dull-brained trees and mountains. The modern civilization, most harmful civilization. Denying the facility. One has got the capacity to become a brahmana, and they are denying the facility, to keep him to remain like hogs and dogs. Whole day and night, work hard to find out some stool, and as soon as we get some stool, a little strength, then have sex without any discrimination. This is civilization. The Vedic civilization forbids: nayam deho deha-bhajam nriloke kashtan kaman arhate vid-bhujam ye [SB 5.5.1]. If you have created a civilization like the hogs who are working day and night hard to find out some stool, and as soon as he eats some stool, his sex power is agitated, and he doesn't care whether mother, sister or daughter, that is hog's life, hog civilization. Work day and night, and have sex. This is hog civilization. And next life become a tree, become a dull-headed tree, a dull-headed stone, mountain. Or dull-headed elephant. Who knows the laws of creation, how one becomes elephant, how one becomes hog, how one becomes a demigod? Do the scientists know it? Then? Where is the knowledge? The knowledge is "Wait for million years, then you'll see life." Just see.

Svarup Damodar: That's their most favorite slogan.

Hari Sauri: "Wait."

Prabhupada: Just see. I'm immediately going to become a dog, and I have to wait for millions of years. Just see. This is their nonsense. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13], as soon as you give up this body, you get another body. The greatest scientist, Krishna, says. And he says "Wait for millions of years." So shall I take Krishna or the scientist? Krishna says "Immediately," and you haven't got to wait for millions of years for a boy to become a young man. It takes few years. Does it require millions of years for a boy to grow as young man? By nature's way, it is immediately, a few years. Every moment, the body is changing. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara [Bg. 2.13]. Anyway, fight with this ignorance. Krishna consciousness means fighting with ignorance. That's it. Mudho 'yam nabhijanati loko mam ajam avyayam [Bg. 7.25]. What is the next verse? You read it? That is very interesting chapter. You read the purport.

Pusta Krsna [Reads:]

"As stated in the last chapter, after suffering different kinds of hellish conditions, a man comes again to the human form of body. The same topic is continued in this chapter. In order to give a particular type of human form to a person who has already suffered hellish life, the soul is transferred to the semina of a man who is just suitable to become his father. During sexual intercourse, the soul is transferred through the semina of the father into the mother's womb in order to produce a particular type of body. This process is applicable to all embodied living entities, but it is especially mentioned for the man who has transferred to the Andha-tamisra hell. After suffering there, when he who has had many types of hellish bodies, like those of dogs and hogs, is to come again to the human form, he is given the chance to take his birth in the same type of body from which he degraded himself to hell. Everything is done by the supervision of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Material nature supplies the body, but it does so under the direction of the Supersoul. It is said in Bhagavad-gita that a living entity is wandering in this material world on a chariot made by material nature. The Supreme Lord, as Supersoul, is always present with the individual soul. He directs material nature to supply a particular type of body to the individual soul according to the result of his work, and the material nature supplies it. Here one word, retah-kanashrayah, is very significant because it indicates that it is not the semina of the man that creates life within the womb of a woman; rather, the living entity, the soul, takes shelter in a particle of semina and is then pushed into the womb of a woman. Then the body develops. There is no possibility of creating a living entity without the presence of the soul, simply by sexual intercourse."

Prabhupada: This is outside. This is not the combination of the solution. The soul is coming from outside. The same theory. It is not the solution which is creating life.

Pusta Krsna [Reads:]

"The materialistic theory that there is no soul and that a child is born simply by material combination of a man's and woman's semina is not very feasible. It is unacceptable."

Prabhupada: Next verse.

Pusta Krsna [Reads:]

Text two. Kalalam tv eka-ratrena, pancha-ratrena budbudam.

Prabhupada: He's giving description of one day, one night, next night, next night, like that, every description.

Pusta Krsna [Continues reading:]

kalalam tv eka-ratrena,br>pancha-ratrena budbudam
dashahena tu karkandhuh
peshy andam va tatah param [SB 3.31.2]

Translation: "On the first night, the semina and ovum mix, and on the fifth night, the mixture ferments into a bubble."

Prabhupada: The same thing.

Pusta Krsna [Continues:]

"On the tenth night it develops into a form like a plum, and after that, gradually it turns into a lump of flesh or an egg, as the case may be."

Purport. "The body of the soul develops in four different ways according to its different sources. One kind of body, that of the trees and plants, sprouts from the earth; the second kind of body grows from perspiration, as with flies, germs and bugs; the third kind of body develops from eggs; and the fourth develops from an embryo. This verse indicates that after emulsification of the ovum and semina, the body gradually develops either into a lump of flesh or into an egg, as the case may be. In the case of birds it develops into an egg, and in the case of animals and human beings it develops into a lump of flesh."

Prabhupada: Then? Next verse.

Pusta Krsna:

masena tu shiro dvabhyam
bahv-anghry-ady-anga-vigrahah
nakha-lomasthi-charmani
linga-cchidrodbhavas tribhih [SB 3.31.3]

Translation. "In the course of a month, a head is formed, and at the end of two months, hands, feet and other limbs take shape. By the end of three months, the nails, fingers, toes, body hair, bone and skin appear, as do the organ of generation and the other apertures in the body, namely the eyes, nostrils, ears, mouth and anus."

Prabhupada: The same thing. Fermentation is going on, and the living entity takes a form. Then flies. And they say, from the water it is coming, flies, mosquito. The same process for development. That's all. Everything is explained in the Srimad-Bhagavatam.

Devotee (1): Srila Prabhupada, what happens to the soul when you have an abortion, though? Where does it go?

Prabhupada: Goes to another body. Dehantara. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. If you do not allow him to this body, he goes to another body. Just like if you drive me from this apartment, I must go somewhere. I must find out another apartment. It is not that I am finished. You force me to go out of this apartment. So I go to a friend's house or anywhere, I must go.

Devotee (1): Would that also be due to that soul's karma, that he has gone from being aborted on to another body?

Prabhupada: Not necessarily, but you create a karma. You are responsible for that.

Hari Sauri: So it's not necessarily that he's receiving some sinful reaction from past work that he's not allowed to enter.

Prabhupada: That may be, but you are responsible for that. Because you are driving me from this apartment by force. Actually, in a higher sense, that is accepted, that he was to be driven away. But because you are driving, you are responsible for that.

Svarup Damodar: Now this experiment, another interpretation of these material scientists is that they claim that this experiment disproved the vital theory. But on other hand, actually, the opposite is true, that he proved that there is a vital theory, rather, that spirit must be there. That was actually proved by this experiment also. But the mentality of these scientists are so demoniac that they twist the truth around...