Prabhupada: If sexual intercourse is the
beginning of life, then why it is not always successful? We say that
when the life, living entity, is there in the semina and it is put into
the woman's womb, then body develops. Therefore, the beginning is the
life. This is practical. And this life is the part and parcel of the
supreme life. Therefore the beginning is God.
Janmady asya yatah [Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.1.1]. Athato
brahma jijnasa. So we have to establish this theory in this
misguided world that... And besides that, why they cannot produce life
from matter? What is the value of their statement? That they have not
been able to do. Where is the proof that from matter life comes? You do
Svarup Damodar: Proof is
under investigation. [laughter]
Prabhupada: Eh? That is
nonsense. That is nonsense. This proof, that from life, life is coming,
there is proof, so many proof. A man, animal, trees—everything is
coming from life. Up till now, nobody has seen that a man is born from
a stone. Nobody has seen. Sometimes it is called vrishchika-tandula-nyaya.
You know that? Vrishchika-tandula-nyaya. Vrishchika
means scorpion, and tandula means rice. Sometimes we see some
heaps of rice, the scorpion is coming. But that is not that the rice
has given birth to the scorpion. You have not seen in your country? We
have seen it. From the rice, heaps of rice, one scorpion, small
scorpion, is coming. The fact is that the parent of the scorpion, they
put their eggs within the rice and, being fermented, the scorpion comes
out, not that from rice the scorpion is coming out. Therefore it is
called vrishchika-tandula-nyaya. Vrishchika means
scorpion, and tandula means rice. So "Life is coming from
matter"—this is called vrishchika-tandula-nyaya. Life
cannot come from matter. Besides that... Just like when there is life,
living entity, the body grows, body changes or grows, as you say. But
if the child is dead or come out dead, then the body does not grow.
Then matter is growing on life. Why, a dead child born, it does not
grow? What is the reason? What is your scientists' reason?
Svarup Damodar: They will say
that somehow the chemical reactions are not going right in the body, in
the dead body.
Prabhupada: But you give the
chemical. You rascal, you have got so many chemicals. Why don't you
give it? What is the use of saying like that? Now the child is dead.
Now you give some chemical injection and bring it into life. Why you
cannot do that? If you cannot do that, then what is the nonsense,
saying that some chemical is missing? If it is missing, you replace it.
Why you cannot replace?
Svarup Damodar: Because they
haven't found out the chemical.
Prabhupada: Therefore you are
rascal. You do not know what is that chemical, and still you say that
some chemical is missing. This is going on, bluffing, cheating. This
should be stopped. You do not know what is that chemical missing;
still, you say, "Some chemical missing. Why do you say like that?"
Svarup Damodar: Recently
there were some journals that came out. The title is called "The Origin
of Life." I will bring in school when we discuss... It started about
from last year. And they have got an international association of
scientists, and they discuss about the origin of life. And then... I
wrote a letter to the editor of that journal, and they replied me that
they're going to have another meeting, international meeting, in Japan
in 1977. And there will be several meetings in Europe in the coming
years. So their aim and object is to prove that life started from
chemicals. It is a big group, all international scientists. So he asked
me to become a member of a research group.
Prabhupada: So you become
member and protest, "No," and prove. You just become the opposite.
Svarup Damodar: I also asked
Prabhupada: Don't say, "Yes,
it is all right." No, don't say. That will be your duty.
Svarup Damodar: Right now we
are planning to write that book all together, all the Godbrothers so
that for the God we have some background and what we have learned from
Prabhupada, and then we can...
Prabhupada: This kind of
answer, that if I ask you that "You produce life from chemicals," and
if you answer that "Yes, we shall do it in future," that is not very
scientific answer. What do you think? Is that very scientific answer?
Madhava: No. But that's what
they think is scientific.
Prabhupada: How it is
scientific? Life is already there. Not that the life production is
depending on your future scientific research. The life is already going
there, hundreds and thousands and millions. You say that you do not
know. Why you are claiming that "In future we shall know"? There is no
need of your knowing, it is already going on. You do not know. That is
your position. And still, you are declaring yourself as scientist. You
are misleading. You can make a fool's paradise, that is another thing.
But you do not know at the present moment, but the things are going on.
Life is being produced without your knowledge. So you admit that you
have no knowledge. And without having knowledge, you are declaring
yourself as scientist—how much cheating it is. It is not that it is
depending on your future knowledge. It is already going on. Life is
being produced. So if you think that in future, by chemical combination
you will produce life, so that chemical composition is already there,
going on. So you have to find out who is that scientist, not that
chemical composition. Who is that scientist who is producing so many
lives and chemicals? That is real intelligence.
Svarup Damodar: That's why we
title our book as "The Origin of Life in Matter." We do not talk simply
Prabhupada: Origin of
Svarup Damodar: Yes. Matter,
crude matter, origin of the chemicals, the, this carbon, hydrogen,
these elements, these also, there is a brain behind it who made these
Prabhupada: Yes. So we have
to find out who is that brain, who is that scientist. That is real
research. Athato brahma jijnasa. This is brahma-jijnasa.
Jijnasa means enquiry, that "Who is that brain?" Because
things are already going on. It is not depending on your so-called
research. It is already going on nicely. So your business should be:
"Who is that brain behind it?" That should be your research, not that
how chemical combination can be... It is already being produced without
your so-called scientific knowledge. It is already going on. So as you
are taxing your brain that "How this chemical combination produces
life?" So that brain is already there. Otherwise how life is coming?
What do you think? So why you are trying to find out the chemicals? You
find out the brain. As you are taxing your brain to find out the
chemicals, the original brain has already done it. Now you find out who
is that person who has got such a nice brain.
Svarup Damodar: That is the
Prabhupada: That is real
research. You point out this, not that, your chemical combination. It
is already done. And people are already taking advantage like that. If
there is some discovery by some scientist, he praises the man who has
Rupanuga: He names the man,
experiment for the man.
Prabhupada: Yes. The man is
important, who has done it. The person is important. So am I right or
wrong? So find out the person, who is that person.
Tamal Krsna: Suppose they say
that it just came about by chance.
Prabhupada: That is kick on
your face with boots. Immediately: boom! [laughter] That's all. That is
the answer, only answer. Rascaldom answer, "chance." The only answer is
to kick his face with the boot, that's all, as soon as he says chance.
Svarup Damodar: So Richard
Prabhu is going to write a topic, a chapter, that mathematical proof of
the idea that chance comes into play, that...
Prabhupada: Your mathematics
is also imperfect because you are imperfect. You are imperfect. There
is nothing chance. There must be cause. You do not know the cause. You
cannot find out. You are taking a loophole, chance. Then why you are
making so many scientific research? Chance, let it happen, everything,
by chance. Then what is the use of your scientific research? Let
everything happen by chance. There is no chance.
Svarup Damodar: Another
answer that we come across when we talk with these people...
Prabhupada: There is nowadays
the chance theory.
Svarup Damodar: No, chance is
not so much popular, but the answer that "chemicals were supplied by
nature," that's a very...
Prabhupada: No, what is
nature? That you cannot explain.
Svarup Damodar: That is the
answer, theirs. When we ask the scientists...
Prabhupada: But what is this
Svarup Damodar: Yes, the
nature is not understood.
Prabhupada: You see? That
means you are rascal. You have not understood. You have no knowledge.
As soon as you cannot explain, you prove your foolishness, that's all.
That is not scientific answer, "chance," "nature." What is the nature?
Who is conducting nature? How the nature is going on so nicely?
Rupanuga: You said before
they were acting as teachers, but actually they are still students.
Prabhupada: No, they are
cheater. They are cheater, not teacher, cheater. They have no full
knowledge; still, they have become teacher. You cannot become teacher
unless you have got full knowledge. That is cheater.
Tamal Krsna: Srila
Prabhupada, suppose that they acknowledge the fact that they do not
know, but they challenge, "How do you know what you believe is right?"
Prabhupada: Because I have
approached the Supreme, the supreme brain, Krishna. He is the perfect
person in knowledge. Aishvaryasya, jnana. Vedaham
samatitani [Bhagavad-gita 7.26]. He knows
everything. He is conducting nature. Mayadhyakshena prakritih
suyate sa-characharam [Bg. 9.10]. Yasyajnaya bhramati
sambhrita-kalachakro. Janmady asya yatah [Srimad-Bhagavatam
1.1.1]. So we know from the perfect. Therefore my knowledge is perfect.
I am not perfect; that's a fact. But my knowledge is perfect. Just like
I am not an electrician. But the electrician has told me that "You push
this button. There will be light." So I am doing that. What is the use
of becoming electrician? I want light, and the electrician told me,
"Just push this button." I am doing that, and light is there. That's
all. You cannot say, "You are not a electrician. How you can say the
light...?" And I know from the perfect person, and it is acting. This
is our position. It doesn't require that I will have to become
electrician. The electrician has told that "You push this button," and
there is light. That's all. Does it require that I will have to become
a electrician to conduct this light?
Rupanuga: No, it simply
requires that one listen and take instructions.
Prabhupada: That's all.
Therefore shruti, Vedas. Tad-vijnanartham sa
gurum eva abhi... [Mundaka Upanishad 1.2.12]. Hear
from the guru and do it. That's all. Guru-mukha-padma-vakya,
chittete koriya aikya. Now,
what is that song? Who knows this song, sri-guru-
chittete koriya aikya, ar na koriho mane asha.
mane asha. Do not try to research anything. That is final. Ar
na koriho mane asha. If the guru is perfect, your
knowledge is perfect. And how guru becomes perfect? He has
heard from his guru. That's all. Evam parampara-praptam
[Bg. 4.2]. Krishna is the original guru. Imam vivasvate
yogam proktavan aham avyayam, vivasvan manave prahu [Bg. 4.1].
This is parampara system. You hear... Just like Lord Brahma
heard from Krishna, tene brahma hrida adi-kavaye. He gave
the knowledge to Brahma. Brahma distributed the knowledge. Therefore
Vedic knowledge is perfect. The Vedic knowledge comes from the Supreme
Person. Vedaham. Vedaish cha sarvair aham eva vedyam
vedanta-vid vedanta-krit chaham [Bg. 15.15]. So Vedic knowledge
is coming from Krishna, and it is received by Brahma, and then Narada
. Then Vyasadeva receives. Then he gives us all these Vedic literature.
We understand. That's all. It is not by so-called rascal's research.
Research means they are rascal. That's all.
Rupanuga: Krishna says, "Take
it from Me."
Prabhupada: Yes. And if he
wants to make research, that means he is a rascal number one. If you
want to make research, then search out what is the original brain, not
the process. Process is already going on. What is the use of your
research, nonsense? Suppose by chemical combination, if you produce one
life... You will never be able. But still, if you think that you will
be able or you become able, then what is credit to you? Without your
help there, millions and millions of life are being manufactured,
without your help. Then what is your credit?
Tamal Krsna: Imitating a
Prabhupada: That's it. So
millions of dogs are barking, and one man has learned how to bark like
dog, and people will go to see him by purchasing ticket. This is their
foolishness. Suppose if you somehow or other become able to produce
life from chemical, then what is your credit? It is like barking dog.
Millions of dog are barking. Now you have learned how to bark like dog.
So what is your credit? It may be for the rascal fools that you are
scientist, but we are not so rascal.
Rupanuga: They will clap. The
fools will clap.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. "How
nice barking. Oh, how he has learned to bark." Just see. We are not so
fools. Krishna yei bhaje sei bado chatura: "The
first-class intelligent man is he who is Krishna conscious." Sei
bado chatura. All rascals. Krishna said, na mam
dushkritinah mudhah. "Oh? Also very scientist?" Mayayapahrita-jnana:
"They have no knowledge, all rascals." Krishna says. Mayayapahrita
-jnana, that he is not thinking, that "Suppose I can produce
life by chemical combination, then what is my credit? The life is
already there. It is going on very nicely." What do you think,
Balavanta? If the things are going on nicely, then where is my credit?
Either you say, "by chance," or "by God's arrangement," "by nature,"
but things are going on nicely. So it is same thing, to learn how to
bark, that's all. Barking is going on, but he wants to take credit by
learning how to bark. That's all.
Madhava: They try to imitate
Prabhupada: That's all. That
he cannot, and that is his foolishness. Therefore we say that you are
cheating. Things are already there, going on. What is your credit?
Rupanuga: The scientists are
trying to be the hero. Krishna is the hero. He has done everything
first, and the scientist wants to be the hero.
Prabhupada: So you have to
present like this, that "What is the credit? Suppose by chemical
composition you can manufacture one ant. That is not possible. Be
assured you will never be able. That we are assured. But even if you
are able, then what is your credit? The credit is the man has learned
how to bark like a dog. That's all, this much credit."
Svarup Damodar: No, if they
are able to make life, then they are going to say that there's no God.
Prabhupada: Yes, but first of
all you produce. Then say. Why you are anticipating that you will be
Rupanuga: Still, who is the
bigger God? If I make one ant, and there's already many, many ants made
by a bigger God than me...
Tamal Krsna: Yes, so He is
God. Whoever has made the most, He should be God.
Rupanuga: So we must
recognize Krishna as the big scientist.
Prabhupada: That is... This
foolishness is going on throughout the whole world, and scientist and
people are after the so-called scientist, Darwin. So we want to stop
this misleading. That is our duty.
Svarup Damodar: Actually, the
way they study the origin of life is nothing but the origin of
molecules. It's not actually of life, the way they are studying. So
there is a misunderstanding what is life and what is matter.
Prabhupada: No, no, whatever
they are studying, this rascal cannot make life even with combination
of those original molecules. Where is that proof? Our challenge is that
because they cannot do it, therefore they are rascals. And that vrishchika
tandula nyaya, that a scorpion is coming out of rice, that's it.
Svarup Damodar: Their claim
depends on the...
Prabhupada: There are life
manifestation, according to Vedic literature, that some of the life,
they are coming from eggs, some of the life, they are coming from
perspiration, some of the lives come from a seed, and some of the life
comes from embryo. This is all stated there. Sveda-ja, udbi-ja,
anda-ja, jarayu-ja. They already there. Jarayu means
embryo, and sveda means perspiration. Life is everywhere. When
they take little advantage, they come out, manifest. You will find even
on the pavement, footpath, as soon as there is crack, some grass is
coming out. So life is everywhere, it is struggling, and as soon as
there is favorable circumstances, they come in a form. That's it. Life
is not created, na jayate. Read Bhagavad-gita. Na
jayate: "Life is never created." It is existing eternally.
Therefore it is said, na jayate. So unfortunate rascals, they
do not take advantage of Bhagavad-gita and making
research. So we want to stop this rascaldom. They are trying to create
life, and it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, na jayate:
"It is never created." It is already there. Simply it is coming out,
being manifest by different bodies, 8,400,000 forms. That I was
explaining last night. According to his desire. The life is already
there, and according to his desire, he is coming out in different
forms. That is going on. This is a false theory, that chemical can
create life. It is nonsense. Life is never created, life is already
there. God is already there, and the part and particles, molecules,
life, was already there. Na jayate mriyate va kadachit.
word is used, kadachit, "at any time." So we have got perfect
knowledge. Why should we say, "Yes," with these rascals? We have got
Rupanuga: They say matter can
never be created or destroyed, but they do not know that life cannot be
created or destroyed.
Prabhupada: Nothing cannot be
created. Life also cannot be created. They are already there. But
matter is manifest, not manifest. Just like this body is manifest
because the life is there. Now, this body will be destroyed, but I will
exist. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. I will accept
another body, and it will grow. Therefore the matter grows on the basis
of life, not that from matter, life comes. This is all rascaldom. So
now, by the grace of... We have got scientists. Let them protest. Save
the people from this ignorance. Mudha. That is our mission.
Give them chance. They have got human body. Let them become Krishna
conscious and give up all this nonsense thing. Hitva anyatha
rupam svarupena avasthitih. Mukti, this is mukti.
They are mad after something wrong. So they should be saved, and they
should give up this so-called materialism and come to service to the
Krishna, his eternal job. Then that is mukti. He is liberated.
Rupanuga: So this book
actually, is directed to scientifically-minded people because in this
age people are getting educated. They are getting scientific-minded.
Prabhupada: But that creating
problem. The psychiatrists came to see me, where? Caracas. So I said—he
admitted, both the psychiatrists—that "You are not treating the real
person who is diseased." I gave him the example, that "You have got
good car, but the driver is a madman, and he is creating disaster, and
you psychiatrists are going to cure it. You never say that 'The driver
is bad. Change him or just educate him. Then there will be no
disaster.' But you are taking your fees and giving some repairing in
the car. But you do not know what is the original cause of disaster. It
is not chance. Due to the bad driver." So our propaganda is to give the
bad driver nice knowledge so that he can drive the car to Vaikuntha.
That is our position. And these rascals, the materialists, they are
simply painting the body of the car. And the driver? "Let him starve."
Rupanuga: They are like the
Prabhupada: That's all. All
these medical men, psychiatrists, they are simply painting the body of
the car. That's all. What is that?
Prabhupada, the scientists, they've reported in one journal of theirs
that by taking some chemicals of methane, ammonia and carbon and
injecting it with electricity, that equation or that formula equates
them to an energy that is called amino acid in due course of time. That
is, they say, the building blocks of life, of protein.
Prabhupada: So why do they
not do that?
Vira-laksmana: They've made
Prabhupada: That means they
are not in knowledge. That I am speaking, the barking dog. First of all
make experiment, produce life. Then come and say. Otherwise don't bark
like a dog, imitation. Simply big, big words. Produce. Our theory is
that... In the shastra it is said harer nama harer nama
harer namaiva kevalam, kalau nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha...
[Chaitanya-charitamrita Adi 17.21]. That practical proof
we are giving, that these Europeans, Americans, they are simply
chanting Hare Krishna and how they are coming out, this practical
proof. They did not know five or six years ago what is Krishna, what is
Krishna's name. But we are taking the conclusion of the shastra:
in this age, if one chants Hare Krishna, he becomes spiritualized. That
is becoming, practically. It is not theory. How so many devotees are in
this Atlanta, here? Anywhere, wherever we have started, how they have
become devotee? Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said that "You follow this formula
and you will become God conscious." That is being practically proved.
It is not theory. So that is Vedic knowledge. You adopt Vedic knowledge
and get the result, not that "This ammonia, this chemical, that
chemical, but I cannot do anything." The rascal said, "That I cannot
Svarup Damodar: Yes.
Prabhupada: He asked him,
that rascal chemist, that "If I give you the chemicals, can you
manufacture life?" That time he said, "No, that I cannot say." Why do
you say like that? In the beginning, in New York, that store front, the
Satsvarupa is with..., and Hayagriva and... And you chant simply. You
were also there. So this chanting is proving efficient. That is Vedic
knowledge. It is not theory. Our, this Krishna consciousness movement
is not theory or mental speculation. It is a fact. So therefore it is
said, guru-mukha-padma-vakya, chittete koriya aikya, ar na
koriho mane asha. So whatever little success I have got, it is
only for this reason. My Guru Maharaja said that
"You go and preach whatever you learned in English language." That's
all. So I came here with this faith, that "My Guru Maharaja said. I
must be successful." I did not show any jugglery to you, gold-making
jugglery. Where is my gold? I came with forty rupees first. [chuckles]
So these are Vedic instruction, guru-mukha-padma-vakya,
guru-charane rati, ei se uttama-gati. That is real progress. So
this is Vedic instruction. We have to follow the Vedic injunction. Then
you will be successful. Not these rascals' theory. It is useless.
Svarup Damodar: The standard
of knowledge has to be there, but they do not know that there is a
standard. The scientists, these researchers working in different
fields, not only scientists, any field of knowledge, there must be a
Prabhupada: The standard is
given by... That is standard, as that Vedic language, Vedic
instruction. Just like Chaitanya Mahaprabhu gave the standard, harer
nama: [Cc. Adi 17.21] "Chant Hare Krishna." Immediately successful.
That is standard. Otherwise how you will find standard? Therefore it is
said, guru-mukha-padma. That is standard. What you hear
from a bona fide guru, that is standard. Krishna says, man-mana
bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Anyone who will do
this standard, he will become devotee. And as soon as he becomes
devotee, he is fit for going back to home, back to Godhead. Yes, this
is standard. What Krishna says? Find out this verse. Man-mana
bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Whatever
Krishna says, that is standard. All nonsense. Ar na koriho mane
asha. Don't accept anything. This is standard. What is that?
mad-yaji mam namaskuru
mam evaishyasi satyam te
pratijane priyo 'si me [Bg. 18.65]
"Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your
homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you
this because you are My very dear friend. "