he related to his roommate was just too bizarre to be depression.
The bizarre content of his plays — mashing a half-eaten "banana bar" in
someone's mouth, the hypersexual, nihilistic (death obsessed)
obsessions in the absence of depressive guilt or tearfulness are
another clue. The progressive decline of a period of years. Those with
schizophrenia, especially in their earliest years, are not readily
recognizable as such — their condition is evolving. But here was
someone who, as early as 2005, was carrying himself so strangely that
he was a spectacle. The depressed withdraw and disappear. Those who are
so peculiar in their manner so as to be inappropriate (taking cell
phone pictures of his teacher, speaking inaudibly, pulling a cap low
over his eyes) exhibit signs and symptoms more indicative of
schizophrenia. He was communicating in a rambling manner reflective of
what we appreciate as autistic thinking — characteristic of
schizophrenia. In a similar vein, Mr. Cho's stilted communication in
his homicide note (deceitful charlatans — not the language of a
23-year-old college kid) is also the manner of a schizophrenic's
communications, as is his pronounced delay in responding to questions.go to story
the past, we have met different doctors in the field of mental health
who are sometimes trying to bring extremely bewildered patients back to
sanity. But what is the standard of sanity? What is the perfection of
mental health? That is Krishna consciousness. The mind and the body are
just coverings on the soul. Mental disturbances or physical
disturbances are the result of being removed from that spiritual
identity. The more we identify with matter, whether gross or subtle,
the more we experience disturbance in the form of frustration and
disappointment. The further we are removed, the more intense or acute
the frustration becomes; thus the more painful is our condition. So we
have to bring the person back to his real spiritual identity and his
eternal relationship with God. Then he becomes satisfied. He becomes
Dharmadhyaksha: You find in psychology
books, Srila Prabhupada, more pictures of rats and pigeons than human
beings. In the modern textbooks of psychology you find more pictures of
rats and pigeons than human beings.
Dharmadhyaksha: Because they
feel that they can study the behavior of rats and pigeons very easily,
much more easily than a human being. They can manipulate them. And then
they extrapolate from their data on the rats and pigeons as to what
human behavior is.
Prabhupada: So, but they say
that except man, there is no soul?
Jayatirtha: But now they say
that no one has a soul.
Dharmadhyaksha: No, the
modern psychological definition is that man is a flesh and blood
organism and that you can know man by studying his bodily processes.
Prabhupada: Then why don't
you give life to the flesh and blood?
Dharmadhyaksha: That is a
Prabhupada: Then it is
Bahulasva: In California they
have passed a law that homosexuality is legal. So the psychologists say
that they see the dogs and the hogs and monkeys having homosex
relationships, so on that grounds, they say, it should be legal.
Prabhupada: They have got
homosex? Dogs, hogs, I don't think.
Bahulasva: Yeah, dogs, they
say. We were preaching in this one convention that the dogs are also
fighting. So therefore fighting and murder should be legal too because
the dogs do that also.
Brahmananda: Their argument
was because the dogs have homosex, therefore the man should have...?
Bahulasva: Should have
Dharmadhyaksha: Yes, if an
animal does it, then a human being should have the same right to do it
Jayatirtha: Then they can
pass stool in the street also?
Prabhupada: Then what is the
difference between man and animal? They do not find any difference?
Prabhupada: Then why they
find difference in having soul?
Brahmananda: Well, that is
the Christian. But these modern psychologists, they don't even think
that the human being has soul. That he's the same as the animal.
Bahulasva: Actually psyche
Prabhupada: Psyche means
mental activities, thinking, feeling, and willing. Their opinion about
Bahulasva: They think that
birth is the beginning of the body and that when death comes everything
This has become a
very popular subject, psychology. About 80% of the students take a
class in this. And they took a survey, and the reason most students
take this class is to find out more about who they are themself. So it
is the closest thing in the west to self-realization.
Jayatirtha: They've found out
that "I am no better than the animal"? That's the conclusion?
Dharmadhyaksha: One school.
Then there's another school. They say, "How can you base a theory of
human nature on animals?" They do not like this. They are revolting
against making man an animal.
gives the best psychology.
Bahulasva: How to control the
mind to uplift the self.
Prabhupada: [break] So why
the dogs cannot construct such building? [referring to a building on
the university campus] ... psychology? Why
they haven't got the same psychology?
Dharmadhyaksha: Well, the
scientists would say that "We have the same psychology. We have a
material psychology, the dog has a material psychology, but we're just
a little more advanced, that's all."
Prabhupada: So similarly,
there may be others who are still more advanced. Therefore the most
is God. This should be the psychology. As we see there is difference
between dogs and hogs and man, so go on. Search out. So when you find
out the most intelligent person, then he is God. Parataram nanyat.
That is statement of Bhagavad-gita: "No more intelligent.
Here, ultimate. I am God." So from psychological point of view how they
can deny God?
paramah krishnah [Brahma-samhita 5.1]. Paramah...,
paramah means the Supreme. Our definition of God is that supreme in
every respect. What man can do, the dog cannot do. What the dog can do,
the cat cannot do. What the cat can do, the rat cannot do. So we see so
many differences. Therefore there must be others who are more
intelligent than man. That is demigod. And there must be others most
intelligent than the demigods. In this way when you come to the final,
that is Krishna. Ishvarah paramah krishnah [Bs. 5.1]. Go
on finding out more, more, more. When you come to the final, that is
God or Krishna. So we take instruction from Him. Therefore we are
better than the so-called university professors.
Bahulasva: In this tower they
had to put glass so the students wouldn't jump out. [laughter]
Prabhupada: Ohh! Just see.
they were committing suicide?
Being taught that they are the body. I went to a Catholic university
and they taught me in psychology... and it was a priest... and they
teaching this, that I am a bodily process. And he never challenged the
textbook. So when one thinks he's the body and if he's intelligent, a
very depressing thought. Even in the Catholic universities they use
these textbooks that teach this materialism.
yathandhair upaniyamanah: [Srimad-Bhagavatam
7.5.31] "Blind man is leading other blind men."...
Dharmadhyaksha: There's one
psychologist who believes man is his body but he talks very much about
transcendence. Even the materialists now, they realize that the present
condition is very miserable and this false ego is the cause of all
problems, so they are seeking some form of transcendence. And many
psychologists are talking about transcendence nowadays as the solution
to life's problems.
Prabhupada: What do they
define about transcendence?
actually they give all the characteristics of transcendence that are
found in the Bhagavad-gita but without saying that man is
a spirit soul and without talking about Krishna. They believe man
should overcome duality, should be beyond attachment, should work for a
higher goal in life, things like this, all the characteristics that
Krishna gives but without Krishna.
Bahulasva: It appears that
they have taken these things from Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Yes, they must.
What is this department? [reads sign on building:] "Social science".
Bahulasva: How to live in
peace. How to live, peaceful society.
Prabhupada: And fall down
from the tower? [laughter]
Dharmadhyaksha: That is part
of the study, Srila Prabhupada. It's called alienation, why people are
Prabhupada: Now it is very
peaceful, fall down and finish. That's all. Suicide.
Dharmadhyaksha: The reason
they say that people are committing suicide is there is not enough
meaning in life, and there's not enough meaning in life because the
capitalists are exploiting all the people and making people work very,
Prabhupada: But they have
meaning, life. You have no meaning, but they have meaning. Some section
have meaning. They are accusing capitalist. So they have meaning. Why
you say there is no meaning? You have no meaning. You have no money—you
have no meaning. [laughter]
Dharmadhyaksha: That is their
feeling, that if everyone had equal...
Prabhupada: No, therefore you
cannot say life has no meaning. You have no meaning, but others may
have. You cannot say, generalization, that life has no meaning.
Bahulasva: We can say your
life has no meaning.
Prabhupada: Yes. You are
unfortunate. You have no meaning. We have meaning. We are going back to
home, back to Godhead.
reason they feel very depressed is that they feel powerless, that they
have no power to control their destiny, that all the big social forces,
all the big social powers, they're controlling their lives, and...
Prabhupada: Then why you are
so much proud of having all the knowledge? Then you admit that you are
a rascal. You have no... You are dependent, and you are trying to be
independent. That is not being possible, therefore you are rascal. Your
education has no meaning because you are dependent and you are trying
to be independent.
professors nowadays, they will admit that they have no absolute
knowledge, that everything they know is relative and that there might
be something much better than what they are teaching.
Prabhupada: There might...
There is. But you rascal, you do not take it. That is your fault. There
is, not "There might be." Here is Bhagavad-gita. [break]
...Bhagavad-gita it is said, etat jïanam:
knowledge, and all other things, they are not knowledge." Etat
Bahulasva: Anything other
than this is ignorance?
Bahulasva: ...They say that
we're becoming brainwashed.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Why you cannot do? It is brainwash, yes, all dirty things you are...
Bahulasva: Are being cleansed.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is our
[Chaitanya-charitamrita Antya 20.12], cleansing the mirror
of heart. Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. This is
our process, cleansing. Tato rajas-tamo-bhavah kama-lobhadayas
Dharmadhyaksha: In modern
psychology, Srila Prabhupada, only until very recently, they did not
even want to talk about consciousness. There was no mention of
consciousness because it was not a scientific thing that they could
Prabhupada: Scientific... It
is the most crude thing. Everyone knows. Even the animal, even the ant,
they have got consciousness.
Dharmadhyaksha: Well, it
embarrassed them that they know everyone has consciousness but there
was no way they could measure it or, according to gross science, get
some factual information about it. So it embarrassed them so much, they
tried to avoid the subject, hush it up, not speak about it.
Prabhupada: That is their
disease. When they cannot make any solution, they avoid it. [break]
...touch the real point, that why there is death. Nobody will touch
because they cannot make any solution. Why do they not have a
they're actually realizing their error and they're studying death more,
trying to prepare people for death more. But the only thing they can
tell them is, "Accept it." The only thing they can do is say, "You are
going to die. So just accept it with a cheerful attitude."
Prabhupada: But I do not wish
to die. Why shall I be cheerful? You rascal, you say, "Become
cheerful." [laughter] "Cheerfully, you become hanged." [laughter] The
lawyer will say, "Never mind. You have lost the case. Now you
cheerfully be hanged." [laughter]
Dharmadhyaksha: That is
actually... The whole goal of modern psychology is to make people
adjust to the fact that they must stay in this material world and that
if you have some desire to leave the material world, they will tell you
you are crazy. "No, no. Now you must adjust more again to the material
Bahulasva: They teach you to
accept the frustrations of life.
Prabhupada: Why frustration?
You are big, big scientist. You cannot solve?
Dharmadhyaksha: They cannot
solve because they have the same problems.
Prabhupada: The same logic,
"Cheerfully be hanged." That's all. As soon as there is some difficult
subject, they give up. And they speculate on some nonsense thing.
That's all. This is their education. Education means atyantika-duhkha-nivritti,
the ultimate solution of all unhappiness. That is education, not that
after coming to some extent, "No, you can die happily." And what is duhkha,
unhappiness? That is presented by Krishna: janma-mrityu-jara-vyadhi
duhkha-doshanu... [Bg. 13.9]. These are your unhappiness. Try to
solve it. And that they are carefully avoiding. They cannot stop death,
neither birth, nor old age, nor disease. And during the short period of
life, birth and death, they are making big, big buildings, and next
time he is becoming one rat within the buildings. [laughter] Nature.
You cannot avoid the nature's law. As you cannot avoid death,
similarly, nature will give you another body. Become a tree in this
university. Stand up for five thousand years. You wanted to be naked.
Now nobody will object. You stand here naked.
Bahulasva: They do that also.
They have a fad now. It's called streakers.
Prabhupada: Yes. So therefore
their punishment is to become tree, to cat, dog, like that. That they
cannot explain, why there is cat life, dog life, human life, rich life.
That they cannot do. All big questions, they have avoided. And they
remain perpetually a rascal. That is their education. Mudha,
Krishna says, mudha, naradhama: "Lowest of the mankind." Human
life was meant for real education. They remain the same rascal and die
very happily. Mudhas.