Send the President to Iraq

War on Terror

Who will Win? Hansadutta das

Recently, a United States Military General commented at a news conference: "The insurgents cannot win." But even if the insurgents do not fire another shot, how will you win? You will die without any insurgent making any other effort, so what is "win"? You will "win" what? The Americans will all die, even if they "win". The insurgents will also die, without any effort on the part of the Americans. Everyone will die, without any effort being expended by either Americans, Iraqis, insurgents, Communists, Muslims, etc. more

Reporter: One American motto is "One nation under God."

Prabhupada: Yes. That is Krishna consciousness. There should be one nation under God, and one world government under God as well. Everything belongs to God and we are all His sons. That philosophy is wanted.

Reporter: But in America people are very much afraid of the central government because they think that wherever there is a strong government there will always be tyranny.

Prabhupada: If the leaders are properly trained, there cannot be tyranny.

Reporter: But one of the premises of the American system of government is that if a leader has too much power, he will inevitably become corrupt.

Prabhupada: You have to train him in such a way that he cannot become corrupt.

Reporter: What is that training process?

Prabhupada: That training is the varnashram-dharma, a system of dividing society into four social and four spiritual orders according to people's natural quality. Divide the society according to quality and train people in the principle that everything belongs to God and should be used in the service of God. Then there really can be one nation under God.

Reporter: But if society is divided into different groups, won't there be envy?

Prabhupada: No, no. Just as in my body there are different parts that work together, so the society can have different parts working for the same goal. My hand is different from my leg, but when I tell the hand, "Bring a glass of water," the leg will help. The leg is required and the hand is required.

Reporter: But in the Western world we have a working class and a capitalist class, and there is always warfare going on between the two.

Prabhupada: Yes, the capitalist class is required and the working class is also required.

Reporter: But they are fighting.

Prabhupada: Because they are not trained up, they have no common cause. The hand and leg work differently, but the common cause is to maintain the body. So if you find out the common cause for both the capitalists and the workers, then there will be no fighting. But if you do not know the common cause, then there will always be fighting.

Reporter: Revolution?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: Then the most important thing is to find the common cause that people can unite on.

Prabhupada: Yes. Just like in our Krishna consciousness society. You come to consult me about every activity because I can give you the common cause. Otherwise there will be fighting. The government should be very expert to know the aim of life, the common cause, and they should train the people to work for the common cause. Then they will be happy and peaceful. But if people simply elect rascals like Nixon, they will never find a common cause. Any rascal can secure votes by some arrangement and then he becomes the head of the government. The candidates are bribing. They are cheating. They are making propaganda to win votes. Somehow or other they get votes and capture the prime posts. This system is bad.

Reporter: So if we don't choose our leaders by popular election, how will society be governed?

Prabhupada: You require brahmanas, kshatriyas, vaishyas and shudras. Just as when you want to construct a building you require engineers. You don't want sweepers. Isn't that so? What will the sweeper do? No. There must be engineers. So if you follow the division of varnashram, only kshatriyas are allowed to govern. And for the legislative assembly, the senators, only qualified brahmanas. Now the butcher is in the legislative assembly. What does he know about making laws? He is a butcher. But by winning votes he becomes a senator. At the present moment, by the principle of vox populi, a butcher goes to the legislature. So everything depends on training. In our Krishna consciousness society we are actually doing that. But in the case of politics they forget it. There cannot be just one class. That is foolishness. Because we have to engage different classes of men in different activities. If we do not know the art then we will fail, because unless there is a division of work there will be havoc. We have discussed all the responsibilities of the king in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. The different classes in society should cooperate exactly as the different parts of the body do. Although each part is meant for a different purpose, they all work for one cause, to maintain the body properly.

Duty of government

Reporter: What is the actual duty of the government?

Prabhupada: To understand what God wants and to see that society works towards that aim. The actual duty of government is to understand what God wants and to see that society works towards that aim, then people will be happy. But if the people work in the wrong direction, how can they be happy? The government's duty is to see that they are working in the right direction. The right direction is to know God, to act according to His instruction. But if the leaders themselves do not believe in the supremacy of God, and if they do not know what God wants to do or what He wants us to do, then how can there be good government? The leaders are misled, and they are misleading others. That is the chaotic condition in the world today.

Reporter: In the United States there has traditionally been the separation of church and state.

Prabhupada: I am not talking about the church. Church or no church, that is not the point. The main thing is that the leaders have to accept that there is a supreme controller. How can they deny it? Everything in nature is going on under the Supreme Lord's control. The leaders cannot control nature, so why don't they accept a supreme controller? That is the defect in society. In every respect the leaders are feeling that there must be a supreme controller, and yet they are still denying Him.

Reporter: But suppose the government is atheistic?

Prabhupada: Then there cannot be good government. Americans say they trust in God, but without the science of God, that trust is simply fictitious. First take the science of God very seriously, then put your trust in Him. They do not know what God is, but we do. We actually trust in God. They are manufacturing their own way of governing, and that is their defect. They will never be successful. They are imperfect, and if they go on manufacturing their own ways and means they will remain imperfect. There will always be revolutions, one after another. There will be no peace.

Reporter: Who determines the regulative principles of religion that people should follow?

Prabhupada: God. God is perfect. He does that. According to the Vedic version, God is the leader of all living entities. Nityo nityanam chetanash chetananam (Katha Upanishad 2.2.13). We are different from Him because He is all-perfect and we are not. We are very small. We have the qualities of God, but in very small quantity. Therefore we have only a little knowledge, that's all. With a little knowledge you can manufacture a 747 airplane, but you cannot manufacture a mosquito. [laughs] Is it possible? God has created the mosquito's body, which is also an airplane. That is the difference between God and us. We have knowledge, but it is not as perfect as God's. So the leaders of the government have to consult God then they will rule perfectly.

Perfect leaders

Reporter: Has God also devised the most perfect government?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. The kshatriyas ruled the government in Vedic times. When there was a war, the king was the first to fight. Just like your George Washington. He fought when there was a war. But what kind of president is ruling now? When there is a war he sits very securely and telephones orders. He's not fit to be president. When there is war the president should be the first to come forward and lead the battle.

Reporter: But if man is small and imperfect, how can he execute God's perfect orders for a perfect government?

Prabhupada: Although you may be imperfect, because you are carrying out my order, you become perfect. You have accepted me as your leader, and I accept God as my leader. In this way society can be governed perfectly.

Reporter: So good government means first of all to accept the Supreme Being as the real ruler of the government.

Prabhupada: You cannot directly accept the Supreme Being. You must accept the servants of the Supreme Being, the brahmanas or Vaishnavas, devotees of the Lord, as your guides. The government men are the kshatriyas, the second class. The kshatriyas should take advice from the brahmanas or Vaishnavas and make laws accordingly. The vaishyas should carry out the kshatriyas' orders in practice, and the shudras should work under these three orders, then society will be perfect.