Talks with Stilson Judah

Barbarians don't know how to cultivate the land. They eat animals. That means they are not human beings, but subhumans. They will even eat one another. That is also coming. Bhagavat Purana says that in this age men will eat their own children...

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Hansadutta das: Satvam dvidya means divine life. Accepting penance and austerity is meant for achieving divine life. Material life means cats, dogs, monkeys, and asses. Animals also have sex, eat, and defend their territory. They may not be as sophisticated as man, but the same principles are carried out in their daily life as in ours. Advancement of human life doesn't mean that we eat more or that we increase the varieties or circumstances under which we eat.

Now we eat in the jumbo jet. We eat in the train. We eat in the restaurant. We eat in the skyscraper. We eat out of a can. We eat out of a bag. We eat everything. We eat the cow. They say man eats anything that flies in the sky except an airplane, and anything that swims in the water except a boat.

But human life means no, you may eat only that which is allotted to you by God. The Bible says [in the very beginning of the book Genesis], "The seed-bearing herbs and fruits shall be meat for you."

People do not accept that. They let the cow eat grass, then kill the cow and eat it. "Why should we bother growing vegetables and fruits when we can let this stupid animal eat, and then we'll eat it." This is barbaric. According to Vedic shastras, civilization begins with the cultivation of food. Barbarians don't know how to cultivate the land. They eat animals. That means they are not human beings, but subhumans. They will even eat one another. That is also coming. Bhagavat Purana says that in this age men will eat their own children. Don't think it is exaggeration. People are already killing their children in the womb. The next thing is to eat them, because there will be a food shortage, so why not eat? Just a lump of flesh, very tasty also. They will do that. There are already cases reported. We've read about it in different journals. Bhagavatam says that in this age men will eat their own children, human beings. That is the result of their advancement of science, politics, communism, socialism, this ism, that ism. Essentially, the whole thing means godlessness. That is the real problem.

There is no problem except godlessness. People say, "What about over-population?" It's not over-population; it's godlessness. God is not providing for you. You say God is dead, so okay, God says, "All right, I am dead. Now you provide for yourself. Produce food without rain. See what you can do when a cyclone comes and blows away a whole city."

What is science? What is politics? What is communism and socialism? The whole of communism means simply an arrangement to get food. I just read that in China they are introducing a program, "Don't eat", telling the people, "Don't eat this, don't eat that, it's too much trouble, it costs too much to produce, so eat dehydrated foods." The animals eat. In Sri Lanka, the wild elephants are eating. They eat tons of food. They have no school, no book, no politics, no bombs. They are eating. Who gives them food? Only the human being with all his science and politics and technology cannot get food. What is the use of science if I can't get food? In Delhi there's no milk. You can't get milk. If you get milk, it will be half water, or milk powder mixed with water. But atom bomb they have, and television. That's very good. In one political cartoon, people were crying at the parliament house, so one minister informed the prime minister, Indira Gandhi, "The people are crying for food." She replied, "Tell them, 'Tomorrow we will have television.'" Is television food? No food. Everyone goes to the factory to work, and no one wants to produce food. This is the problem. What young man wants to produce food? Maybe a handful of hippies, but no gentleman is going to. All the farm boys are leaving for the city. They go to the city, because they see it on the television. I haven't been in America for 10 years, so I don't know the local shows, but in my day it was Dragnet and San Francisco Beat and Ozzie and Harriet. They come to the city for that—for the movies, fast car, the quick life. In Germany also. Only old people are left on the land, and they are selling. You can buy a farm dirt cheap, because no one will work and produce food. Everyone wants to go to the factory or to the gambling casino or just draw welfare or unemployment. A very good life. The government is encouraging, "Yes, you're disturbed, here take welfare." Any freak can get it. Anyone. You grow a little hair, you go to the welfare office and say, "I can't work; I'm too disturbed." "Yes, give him welfare." And those who are working are paying for it. What kind of society is it?

It was the kshatriya's duty to see that everyone had work. Everyone must work at something. There was no question of unemployment. Why must everyone work? Because they recognized that everyone is servant of God. God is master, and we are His servants. The king was the representative of God, so he directed: "You are not working? Come with me, work here." Everyone had to work. There was no question of freeloading.

The whole world has become nonsense. In America there is no need for work if one has a little intelligence. He thinks, "Why should I work when I can get welfare?" Isn't that a fact? "Why should I work? The man who is working is a fool." The youngsters think, "These fools are working, but I'm getting welfare." And he gets a girlfriend and an apartment, has sex and produces some children, like cats and dogs, then divorces, gets another girlfriend, more cats and dogs who grow up to be freaks and hippies and perverts, homosexuals, heroine addicts and terrorists. San Francisco has the highest crime rate in the world, or at least in America. And here they have a homosexual ball. Six hundred thousand homosexuals come to celebrate. And they play baseball with the police. Right? Every year they win. This people call advancement.

Even cats and dogs don't have this type of problem. They have their sex, and they have their children. They don't stockpile food. Of course, the lion is ferocious and voracious, so he kills an animal and eats, but that's all. Then he goes to the water hole, and he drinks water with all the other animals. They don't engage like the human beings.

The human being is given a little independence. But that independence is given to him because he has a greater responsibility in life. The greater responsibility is to realize God, to realize what I am, what is my relationship with God.

I am not talking something sectarian. I am talking practical. You may follow the Bible. I may follow Bhagavad-gita, he may follow Koran. But the principles of religion are the same. Dharma tu shakshat-bhagavat-pranitam. Religion is defined in Srimad Bhagavatam (6.3.19) as the order given by God. God is one, so His order is one, religion is one. In principle, religion must be one. It may be executed differently, according to language, place or circumstances, but the principle is one, like in mathematics. In Hong Kong, San Francisco, in London, in Delhi, two plus two equals four. There may be different teachers, different languages, different schools, different cultures, but the conclusion is always the same, that the religious principles are four: truthfulness, mercifulness, cleanliness, and austerity. Austerity means no animal killing. No illicit sex, no intoxication, and no gambling.

Now who is truthful? Every politician will promise, "I'm going to lower taxes", but that's nonsense. No one ever lowers taxes. Taxes always go up. But he'll say, "I will do this, I will do that", and he'll do nothing. Then of course, in a democracy, he knows, "In four years I'll be out of office, and another man will come." So he takes as much as he can. Everything is in chaos throughout the whole world, and the only solution is God consciousness, Krishna consciousness—not another ism. We have enough isms. The only great leaders of the world are Mohammed, Jesus, Chaitanya, Buddha, Krishna. They did something wonderful. What did Alexander do? What did Napoleon do? What did Hitler do? Mussolini? Stalin? What could they do? They came and created a disturbance, then went away. But Jesus... he spoke something, and the whole world has been influenced. Krishna, Mohammed, Buddha.

Unfortunately, people don't follow. That's another thing. They just rubber-stamp themselves, thinking, "I'm Christian" or "I'm Jewish" or "I'm Hindu", this, that and the other thing. They manufacture so much nonsense in the name of Jesus, in the name of Krishna. We never find in the Bible, for example, that Jesus was an Episcopalian or a Lutheran. We don't find the word Hindu in any Vedic shastra. These are manufactured ideas. In this way, everyone has created something of his own, but the real religious principle nobody follows, and therefore the world is in chaos. Therefore so many problems.

This society, this Krishna consciousness movement, is based on the authority of the Vedic literature, and everyone is working under the guidance of the spiritual master. And it's becoming successful. It's expanding, and people are appreciating it. It's practical.

The next stage is varnashrama dharma. We have distributed the idea in the shape of books. We've established temples. Now we will establish the community life, and it will expand and expand. As far as we are concerned, it will overflood. It will change the course of history. It is meant for that. As Lord Jesus introduced something that changed the course of history, so now this has been introduced. The original knowledge, the original culture of the world, Vedic culture, is being re-introduced. It is the renaissance of Vedic culture.

Vedic culture is the original culture, from which all other cultures emerged. Scholars have acknowledged that Sanskrit language, the language of the Vedas, is the root of the world's languages. Even the name Christ means the lover of Krishna. The word Christ comes from the Greek language: christos, meaning the anointed one, and the word christos comes from the Sanskrit Krishna. The same word is there also in Russian: Krazna. And you will find the origin of even Lord Jesus's teachings in India. Their origin is India. The original religion, the original culture is Vedic, and everything has come from that. It's not conjecture or just a statement on my part. It's a fact. Those who study history and culture will have to come to this conclusion. Christ refers to Jesus the Christ. It was not his name; it was his title. Lord Jesus, the Christ, like Jimmy Carter, the President. The President is not his name; it's his title. Lord Jesus the Christ means the lover of Krishna, lover of God. In this way, if we understand things actually on principle, then there's no difference, no competition, and no incongruity. Not "Oh, I'm Christian; he's something else" or "I don't believe this, I don't believe that." On principle, you will find a golden thread running through the Bible, Koran and the Vedic shastras. That's the thing. At least, we think like that.

Even Lord Buddha... although he never preached about God, he never preached about the soul, nevertheless, you will find the name of Lord Buddha mentioned in Srimad Bhagavatam, in Agni Purana, and in Vayu Purana. It was predicted that he would come and preach in this age, and he was identified as a Vishnu avatara, or at least shaktyavesh avatara, representative of God for performing a particular mission.

When we see religion in retrospect, then we will not find any sectarianism. There will not be any differences, no contradictions. Then we will understand everything in its proper place. Just like kindergarten, high school and university. All are education. In kindergarten, the children simply play, but that is required for a certain level. The grammar school student is learning ABCs, and above him are the students in junior high school, high school, and university. We can't say that the university is better than kindergarten. It is not a fact. Kindergarten is good, and university is good, according to the student. Christ taught, Mohammed taught, Buddha taught, Krishna taught, Chaitanya taught—all taught according to time, place and circumstances. They taught people the principles of religion. Buddha had to teach ahimsa, nonviolence, because the people were using shastric statements to support animal slaughter. So he said, "I don’t care for shastra. I have this, ahimsa", and they followed him. Thus he saved the people. And Jesus taught, "Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy might and with all thy soul. Thou shalt love thy neighbor." Very simple. He taught very simple truths, but the people were barbarians, and they killed him. He was crucified. That proves he had to preach very simple truths. But Krishna didn't teach like that. Krishna immediately taught:

dehino'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara

The body is changing from boyhood to youth to old age. Similarly, at death there is another change. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change. (Bhagavad-gita 2.13)

That which pervades the entire body is indestructible. No one can kill the imperishable soul. (Bhagavad-gita 2.17)

Wherever and whatever one's mind is fixed on at the time of leaving this body, immediately one attains to that nature. (Bhagavad-gita 8.6)

Whosoever thinks of Me at the time of death immediately attains to a nature like My own. (Bhagavad-gita

Krishna taught the complete science, because at that time, people were more civilized, more advanced. They could understand. On the other hand, Mohammed taught with the sword. He killed. He had to kill. One day, when Buddha was seated with his disciples, a leaf fell from the Boh tree. Buddha picked it up and said, "The knowledge that I am giving you is like this one small leaf from the tree of knowledge." Jesus also said, "I have many things to teach you, but you cannot bear to hear it." But Krishna taught the complete, full-blown science of the soul and its eternal relationship with the Super Soul, God.

Don't think that it is something else. No. It is science. The science of God is there in all the shastras, but it is more or less elaborated upon according to the time, place and circumstance. Srila Prabhupada used to give the example of the International Webster's dictionary and the small pocket dictionary. Both are dictionaries, but one is very elaborate, and the other is very simple. In this way it should be understood. Not that my religion is good, and yours is no good. That's nonsense. Because of this kind of foolishness, young people—young boys and girls—don't care for religion at all. They feel, "What is this?" Actually, they want to know everything. They must be enlightened in every way. Now they want to know what is Vedic religion, where does it come from. You can't suppress them. If you don't enlighten them, they'll abandon you, and your church will collapse. They'll abandon Christianity. You must give them enlightenment, full knowledge. So there's no harm if you study. Try to understand Bhagavad-gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, Vedic literature.

Dr. Stillson has done a great service. Your book is wonderful. We very much appreciate it. You've done so much to bring enlightenment in this respect. One may not follow this movement—that's another thing—but he should be enlightened as to what it is, and what are its principles.

It's not that these young men and young ladies have nothing else to do than shave their heads and be laughed at in the streets. They're dedicated. They have dedicated their life working hard day and night, renouncing everything because they have a vision. They have enlightenment about God consciousness, about their relationship with God, and they are acting on that. It's not merely half an hour in the morning and half an hour in the evening. It's 24 hours a day, day in and day out. They have surrendered everything for the service of Krishna. That should be studied: how they are doing that. How do they give up sex, illicit sex? How do they give up gambling? How do they give up eating meat, fish, eggs, smoking, drinking, and going to cinemas? How is it possible, unless they get something to replace that? It is no joke. Try to find me a boy or a girl in the university who doesn't smoke, who doesn't gamble, who doesn't drink, who doesn't have illicit sex, and who doesn't eat meat. I don't think you'll find a single one. But here's a whole society of such people, and they're getting practical results. To build these temples, or to buy these temples, to print these books... Dr. Stillson, you know what it means to print a book. It's no joke. It's a great endeavor. They're doing that, and they're distributing also. Today, some 70 million books have been distributed over the last six or seven years. That's no joke. That's a big endeavor. They say these people are brainwashed, they're fools. Well, it's a good brain washing if you can do this, is all I can say. Some of them have learned Sanskrit. You might have met them. Some know Hindi, Bengali. This is a very extraordinary movement. You may not agree with this philosophy—that's another thing. But it's an extraordinary thing in the modern age that young men and women could embrace a life of austerity, renunciation, and knowledge, dedicate everything and get such a result.

And now we have determined that this young man Charu... you know Charu, Dr. Stillson? He's going to run for mayor of San Francisco. That's his program. And we are aiming for the presidency of the United States. We want to see a Krishna conscious person as the president of our country. A person who is qualified, who is truthful, who is austere, clean, merciful, learned, self-controlled. That's what we want as a leader. We don't want a smoker, drinker and nonsense, or a peanut farmer. We want a real leader. We deserve that. If democracy is our right, then let us use democracy. In this way, we can also be politicians. Krishna was a politician. Arjuna was a warrior. David was a king. Joshua also. I'm not expert in the Bible, but I know something about it. They fought for the right cause. David came out and killed Goliath. Killing may be necessary for the right cause, the cause of the service of the Lord.

This world belongs to God, and it is created for His purpose. That purpose is to know Him. God wants to give everyone a chance to know Him. But people are misusing this world—the politicians, the scientists, the philosophers are misleading people.

I'll show you something I got just a few days ago. This is a book used in schools: The Origins of Johnny. It begins here:

-Before It Began-
Before it began, there was blank, which we cannot know, nor can we name, but because we are human, we cannot help trying to picture it. Blank was not anything, nor was it no thing. It had no middle and no boundary, neither inside nor outside. No height loomed over, no deep. No light called to no dark. No warm answered to no cold. No part was totally like all other parts, and thus it could have no parts at all, nor numbers nor degrees, nor differences of any kind whatsoever.

That's only the beginning. Then of course, there was a big bang. Who set it off, no one can say. I once wrote a song:

In the beginning, you say,
a chunk was floating in space.
It exploded,
and everything fell into place.
But where did this chunk come from?
And all that space?
Have we any experience of a house
just falling into place?

This is what they're proposing, that we should believe this. There was a chunk, it exploded, and all these planets just fell into place, and by accident they're running in the most precise orbits—which is the basis of producing this timepiece or calendar, which requires so much technology and endeavor to make it run perfectly without losing a second. And that all happened by accident. Let the scientists produce a watch like that. Then I'll believe that a planet was produced, or that the universe was produced like that. The book goes on. The idea is, of course, we all know that there was a soup, primordial soup. The earth was one vast chemical factory, and everything happened by mixing of the chemicals and chance biochemical combinations. But is there any chemistry taking place without chemists? In the lab at the university, do the chemicals jump out of the tubes and mix? Do they do that? I have no such experience. But the scientists are proposing that in the beginning there were chemicals that mixed, and suddenly life sprang into being. All right, if it's a fact, bring in your chemicals, and do that. That's what I want to see.

I'm going to start a lecture tour in America when I come back from India, and I'm going to go to the universities and find out these people and challenge them, rent a hall, and invite them, "I'm offering you half a million dollars. Bring your chemicals, and produce life. Don't talk. Just produce. If you produce, half a million dollars. I'm giving that. If you can produce a drop of milk, I'm giving half a million dollars. And if you can't produce it, give me ten dollars." Like that we have to challenge. This is preaching. Lord Jesus was a preacher. He went into the temple, and he beat the moneylenders and the butchers, chased them out of the temple. "Get out!" He wasn't just a pansy. He was ferocious like a lion, and soft like a rose. When he had to, he could become angry, and when necessary, he could bless, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do." But he couldn't tolerate the misuse and nonsense, and he preached very heavily. We must do that also.

The book goes on. The chance biochemical combination of the primordial soup becomes a fish, then a dinosaur, and finally it comes to the monkey stage. The next thing is man. Johnny comes from monkeys. Right there. Millions of monkeys are in the zoo. I never saw one produce a human child, but they're claiming that. No one challenges it. The monkeys are there, but they've never produced a human being.

Then, of course, we come to the Real Thing. Here you go. This is for the kids in school. Right there! It's better than Playboy Magazine. What do they call that? "Love is learned early in life." They call it love. Where is the question of chemicals loving anything? That's what I want to know. But then, "Sex as an act of love"—this is what they're teaching the kids. This is their education. This is the sum and substance.

Such education is the education of animals. Without books, without anything, the animals have sex right on the street. Take a walk on your university campus. The boys and girls are right there, having sex on campus. They only go to the university for that. "Let's go to university. Mom and Dad will pay. Why work? Get a nice apartment, get a nice girl." That's the whole business. The whole thing has deteriorated. Simply having sex in the name of education, in the name of politics, in the name of science, music, and art. Everything is sex. That's all it is. Cats and dogs, and they're producing more cats and dogs.

adharmabhibhavat krsna
pradusyanti kula-striyah

Bhagavad-gita (1.40) says,"When irreligion becomes prominent in the family, womanhood becomes degraded. With degradation of womanhood comes the rise of unwanted population, varna-sankarah." These are the hippies, terrorists, perverts, and heroine addicts. They are called varna-sankarah, or unwanted population. Men and women indulge in sex without restriction, and this results in unwanted pregnancy and unwanted population. No one wants them. And what do they do? They create a hellish situation in society. That is what you have today. A generation of boys and girls who are here straight from hell, or who are creating hell on earth because they have no training in the goals of human life. They don't know anything about it. The result is going to be disaster. That is what we're in for.

This communism is godlessness. I've been in Russia. I've preached there. I've been in East Germany, I've been in Yugoslavia. I've been in all these countries. I know what it means. Most Americans have no idea what they are talking about. This communism and socialism are coming straight from the devil, if I can use that terminology. Demons. Krishna says demons consider satisfying the senses to the last day of life is the prime necessity. This is their demoniac philosophy, and it is the sum and substance of communism. And if we don't become very, very serious about preaching the principles of religion, the whole world will be overrun with this godless communism.

When I was a child, maybe six or seven or eight, I was also a Christian. My mother was very much concerned about religion. I was sometimes a Lutheran, sometimes Episcopalian, sometimes Catholic. But I was impressed by one thing: the story of the Lady of Fatima. She had told that if we didn't chant on the rosary so many times, if we didn't pray, then the world would be flooded over. I was very serious about that, and I was chanting around the clock. But when I came to America—I was a little boy then—I saw that now and then there was no question of anybody chanting. It was all nonsense. So then I became nonsense. But in your Christian community, this idea is there, that you must take to chanting the holy name of the Lord, approach the Lord and take shelter, become purified and give up sinful activities.

You may say something else, but I say, and the Bible also says NO meat eating, NO intoxication, NO illicit sex, and NO gambling. These things are forbidden. There is no sanction permitting them. Anyone who says there is sanction is mistaken. You must stop these things, then only will there be any possibility of counteracting this force in the world. Otherwise, there's no question of it.

In Russia there is no question of religion or God. There is simply work like an ass for food, and the more they go on working from now to doomsday, still God is not providing. There is no food. I've seen it. The only thing you can get, if you're fortunate, is some cabbage, and maybe some potatoes. There is no fresh milk, no cheese, no butter. There are huge stores, but nothing in the stores. And if there is anything at all, the line is 100 miles long. Srila Prabhupada also went to Russia for a few weeks. It's no joke, this communism. Those people are fixed up in their determination. They are getting ready to take over. We're just lolling, like pigs wallowing in the mud of sense enjoyment—smoking, drinking, illicit sex, homosexuality. Everything is going on, and our army and navy are full of potheads, drug addicts, and perverts. So you must take some action. You must preach this Krishna consciousness, God consciousness. We are doing that. We're trying to do whatever we can.

Getting back to the original question, the farm community is the seed of the future, Vedic culture. For anything you ask, we have an answer. We have very definite programs. We're not at all vague or in doubt. We are fixed. We have the outline according to the Vedas and according to our guru, our spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada. We are not guessing or speculating. We are not experimenting; we are executing. Srila Prabhupada used to say, "I am Marx, and you are Lenin. I am giving the idea. Now you execute it. I am writing the drama, and you will act it out." This generation of Krishna conscious people is executing what Srila Prabhupada brought into the world. These books they are executing. They live by these books day and night. Dr. Stillson, you know that, and there's no question of arguing. The books simply say, "This is stated", and we are following that. If you are interested in understanding, we can teach you. If not, we're not interested in arguing. That would be a waste of time. If you want to know something about our way of life, we can teach you. But we're not here to argue that mine is better than yours. That would be a waste of time. We're not going to do that. We're doing practical work. We are very, very busy.

In the Philippines, 500 people came the first time for the Sunday Feast. They want God consciousness. They want knowledge, they want religion. But there's nobody there to give it to them. The government doesn't support it. If they support anything, it's bogus. Only if it's completely bogus, then they say, "Oh yes, it's very nice." Whereas if it's genuine, they arrest immediately. If a man is selling sex literature or hosting a homosexual ball, "Great, wonderful!" But if he's chanting Hare Krishna and trying to sell some Vedic knowledge, distributing in the airport, he is arrested, and called a brain washer. Right?

Formerly, the kings were great rishis, but today they are peanut farmers or movie actors. Ronald Reagan, movie actor. What does a movie actor know about ruling a country? What can he know? Or an old lady, like in India, ruling the country, castrating all the men—and they accept!

Now, we want a real man, Charu. I want to see him become a leader. I've told him, "You can be the president of the United States." That is possible. In America it's possible. It is still the land of opportunity, and America was based on the principle "In God we trust." That was the original idea. Now, however, that idea has been practically kicked out. We hear "God is dead" or "I am God", right? So we want to reverse this. Let us take advantage of democracy and put a rajarishi in the government. Let us put a saintly ruler, and he will do good to the people. If the king is good, then the people will be good. If the king is a rogue, then the people will be rogues. All of the presidents have been woman hunters. It all comes out in the open later. Keeping a hundred or a dozen women. Kennedy also kept so many women. He was simply after women. Roosevelt also, it came out afterwards. Nixon also. We have to talk like this. Otherwise, how will the people be saved? We can't simply close our eyes and sing "The Star-spangled Banner". We're singing Hare Krishna. The day will come when government leaders will talk from Bhagavad-gita. That's right. So I told Charu to run for office. I told him to make people understand "Your city has the highest homicide rate. Homicide should be punished. Hang him down at Powell and Market. People will stop murdering. If someone is a thief, cut off his hands, and people will stop stealing. These are Vedic injunctions. Manu Samhita says. The law book of mankind says this is the punishment."

It will be very controversial. I don't think he will be elected, but at least people will understand something about our movement. We just had a big court case in Germany. The same charges—brain washing and this, that, and the other thing. On the first day of the trial, I came in with 35 men, chanting and dancing into the courtroom. Every newspaper in Germany had it on the front page. They couldn't believe it. Then they called me for my statement. "Have you anything to say, Mr. Kary?" "Yes." I spoke for two hours straight. The first thing I said was that "the prosecutor is not a mahatma, not a pure soul. He's a woman hunter, meat eater, gambler and intoxicator. How can he be fit to prosecute these boys, who are saintly?" I said, "If I ask any man in this court whether he's free from meat eating, illicit sex, gambling and intoxication, everyone will be found guilty. The German constitution begins with the words that the law is formulated in responsibility before God and man. Therefore, none of you are fit." I said this in court. There was dead silence. And it was printed in every newspaper in Germany. Not only this. I spoke so many other things, published in Back to Godhead. I called the prosecutor a liar, a cheater, a rascal, and a rogue. He protested, "Your Honor, I object!" The judge was a little sympathetic towards us, so he tried to calm me down. I said, "All right." Then again I said it, and again the prosecutor protested, and I said it all over again. The judge intervened and said, "Now, Mr. Kary, the prosecutor isn't taking this." I said, "All right," and then again I said it. So the judge said, "Now you cannot say those words any longer." Then I read my statement, and when I came to the end, I again said the same words I should not say, and the whole court room burst into laughter. I spoke for two hours. The next man spoke for three hours, and another spoke for four hours straight. He was like a train entering Grand Central. People expected him to come to a halt, but he just kept coming faster. We were selling books, magazines and records right there in the courthouse. The newspapers reported all this. We turned the courtroom into a tribunal, where the accusers became the accused. That's what the newspapers reported. The story was so sensational that the whole country became sympathetic towards us. People came up to us and asked, "Where did you people study? How are you able to speak like this?" They were amazed. After three days, the judge asked, "Please let me have a set of your books." One judge was sitting and reading Bhagavad-gita during the proceedings. He couldn't stop reading the book. When he first asked me, he said, "I will return them in one week." After one week, he came to me and said, "Mr. Kary, you know I've had these books, and I promised to return them, but you know, it requires much more than one week to read these books." He said, "Indeed, it requires an entire lifetime." I said, "You keep the books, keep them." He answered, "Well, I can't do that. What would people think?" And I said, "Okay, don't worry about it. I'll get you the books so that no one will know." In this way, the court proceedings went on, and the prosecutor was shattered. He was simply shattered when he saw us and heard us speak, and his case fell apart.

So Krishna conscious people are not fools and rascals. They are not just bums and hippies. They are very intelligent and dedicated young men. They may look a little strange, because it is something new, but actually, if you examine the philosophy, if you examine the devotees' activities, you will find something very extraordinary, very extraordinary.

And I dare say that the preachers such as Paul and Timothy, who are described in the New Testament, were comparable. They were of the same calibre. The same activities were going on then. There are many parallels between what we read in the epistles of Paul to his disciples and the Krishna consciousness movement. Paul even told them to keep their heads shaved, and he told them to be celibate, or if not, then to marry one woman and live peacefully. The same principles were there. But now everything has been lost, deteriorated or perverted.

We must restore religious leaders in the world. Otherwise, there is no question of peace or love or brotherhood. The United Nations is talking all nonsense. Not a single nation is united, and brotherhood is a farce. Brother means one father. If there are ten brothers, still they have one father. Amongst the black men, white men, Chinamen, and Russian, if all of us are brothers, then the first question is, "Who is our father?" Carter? Breznev? Not one of them can claim to be father of all men and all living beings. Krishna says, "I am the Father of all living beings." The same concept is there in the Bible. God is the almighty Father. Let the United Nations first establish this point. Who is going to be the father? Instead of jumping into brotherhood, peace and prosperity—impossible without recognizing a common father—first recognize the common father, then see about brotherhood. Not before. Therefore I say the United Nations is bogus and humbug. United Nations has no meaning whatsoever. It is simply cheating people. And science is cheating people. Taking millions and billions of dollars to fly to the moon and bring back rocks. Only rocks. Nothing else was brought. "Yes, there's nothing there. Thank you. Now we're going to Mars. We need another 15 billion dollars." People are so blind and foolish.

Therefore men are required who will preach, who will preach in every field—in the field of science, in the field of medicine, in the field of politics, in the field of religion, in the field of business, in every field. In Los Angeles I had a meeting with some of the businessmen in our community. We have Spiritual Sky Incense, a multi-million dollar business. I was telling them, "Now let us organize. Let us have a Rotary Club, just as the non-devotees have their business associations like Lions' Club, Rotary Club. Let us cooperate all over the world. Let's get together, have a membership, issue a membership card, collect dues, start a bank, and in this way do business for Krishna." There is no harm to do for Krishna—not for sense enjoyment, not for smoking and drinking, not for capitalizing and cheating people, but for giving people knowledge of God, giving a real social structure, real politics, real science, real medicine. We have everything. The Vedic wisdom gives us every knowledge that is necessary for a comfortable, happy, prosperous and successful life. For that, we can engage in any field, in business also, in politics, in science. Perhaps you know Svarupa Damodara? And Dr. Murti, a professor who comes from your university? A very nice gentleman, physicist, highly qualified PhD. He has stopped eating meat, he's chanting 16 rounds, reading Bhagavad-gita. I am completely disqualified, but simply because I am repeating the words of my guru, this man who is so highly placed in society is offering respects to me.

This is Vedic culture. People offer respect to the sadhus, to the devotees, because spiritual self-realization is considered the topmost goal of life. Not just money, woman—those are secondary. The primary goal of life is to follow sadhu, guru and shastra. Great kings and emperors would bow down dandavats [prostrate] before the rishis, who would bless them and give them advice how to rule the people, how to make them happy. Today, the rishis are arrested, while those who peddle pornography and operate whorehouses are respected as great, and one who writes a book on science, which no one understands, gets the prize. Or they go to the moon, bring rocks, and receive all accolades—"Oh, who brought these rocks? There was nothing more? Very good, give him a prize." This is going on. Untold millions and billions of dollars are being spent to get these rocks, and there's no food. Man has ruined everything on earth. What does he want to go to the moon for? Here he has not been able to do nicely. Why does he want to go there? Does he want to ruin the moon also?

We are very opinionated. We have a lot to say, and we have a lot to offer, and we're not going to be stopped by anyone. No one will be able to stop this movement. No so-called laws about brain washing. We're not going to be stopped. That is the test. Krishna sends us a test. We accept it like that. The day will come when we'll have to face fire, I know that. The Christians did. The Hare Krishnas will also face fire.

I'm very honored. I feel very honored that you have come here, and taken the trouble. I'm sorry that you're so uncomfortable. This is our style of living, and we just don't have furnishings. I was going to move to another house, but we couldn't get it ready in time, and we don't have any chairs. So I hope you will excuse us. An emergency. I feel very honored that you have come. If any of you have questions, I will be glad to answer you.

It is a very historic event, the introduction of this movement. It was predicted in the shastras that in this age, this movement would emerge and sweep the world, and thus it has happened. Somehow or other I got the good fortune to be associated with Srila Prabhupada from the beginning. I was his secretary for many years, actually, and in many places of the world. Actually, as Lord Jesus empowered his disciples to preach the gospel, similarly, our spiritual master empowered us. Actually, there is potency, power of God. It is not sectarian. This is completely in keeping with the teachings of Lord Jesus. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy mind and with all thy soul." And "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." "Thy neighbor" is not only the man in that house. Every living creature is your neighbor. Shastras say that if there's an ant in your house, you have to give it food. If there's a snake in the house, you should give him food. What to speak of human beings? This is civilization. On the basis of God consciousness, we can live civilly, harmoniously, prosperously, peacefully, joyfully.

The situation in this godless world now is very far from "Love thy neighbor". When we come into the country, we are asked, "How long are you going to stay? How much money do you have? Where's your passport? Where's your visa? Why have you come?" Every nation is in anxiety. When will the world war begin? When will everything collapse? This is on everyone's mind. Newspapers are full of it. The world is full of terrorism, murder, rape, depression, unemployment, inflation. Isn't it so? When one reads the newspapers, he becomes completely depressed.

Therefore we don't read them. We simply chant Hare Krishna. We read Bhagavad-gita, and there's no need to read anything else. Newspaper... you read it for five minutes, then throw away, use it for toilet paper or to wrap up fish. Reading Bhagavad-gita is required. Then we can get real peace, real knowledge, real love. But nobody is reading Bhagavad-gita. People read newspapers, magazines, watch television, listen to radio, go to cinemas. All mad things. Any madman who can read and write will publish a book. He will publish some philosophy. He doesn't know what he is, where actually he has come from, but he is writing books. End of recording

Talks with Theologian Dr. Stillson Judah

Part II