these men are exactly like dogs, hogs, camel and asses. So by their
vote, by the votes of dogs, hogs, camel and asses, another big ass, big
dog, will be on the government. So what does he know, how to govern? Do
you think if you make a dog king, it will be good government. Or a
camel king, it will be good government? So it is happening so. The
dogs, hogs, camels and asses, they are voting. Another big camel,
another big dog is on the governmental head. How can you expect good
Hayagriva: Plato believed that the best
form of government is an enlightened monarchy, enlightened monarchy.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. That is
we say, rajarshi. Imam rajarshayo viduh [Bhagavad-gita
4.2]. Rajarshi means king, at the same time saintly.
Prabhupada: That is idea. He
has taken these ideas from the Vedic literature.
Hayagriva: When this form
degenerates, it becomes a tyranny.
Hayagriva: When it
Hayagriva: The second best
form is an aristocracy, and when it deteriorates it becomes an
oligarchy, rule of corrupt men. And he considered democracy to be one
of the worst forms of government...
Prabhupada: Yes, that is my,
I have said...
Hayagriva: ...for when it
deteriorates, it degenerates into mob rule.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes, that's
a fact, very good. But the best thing is monarchy, because if the
monarch is rajarshi, he is not only king... That is necessary.
Krishna wants that, that the government should be ruled; therefore we
praise, offer so much respect to Maharaja Yudhishthira, Maharaja
Parikshit and Lord Ramachandra, how to become an ideal king. He is
Personality of Godhead. He showed how to become Rama-rajya. So
this is very good because it is not expensive. One man is maintained by
the state very nicely, and nowadays these democracies' mob rule means
instead of one king there are 300,000 kings in a state, and they are
looting the hard-earned money by income tax, and everything is so
polluted. So the condemnation of democracy is supported by us. It is
mob rule. It has no value.
Hayagriva: Socrates and Plato.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Hayagriva: They had city
states that were, uh...
Hayagriva: ...democracy. They
were, they were so small that everyone could get together.
in India it was pañchayat. So each man of the village,
it is to reduce the responsibility of the state if that small cases,
the pañchayat, some of the important men of the village
they would sit together, and whatever they will decide, that the state
will accept, court will accept. So minimize the responsibility of the
court in deciding several cases. So in the India the pañchayat
system is there.
Hayagriva: The what?
means five, five selected men from the village sit down and decide the
case. That will be accepted by the government.
Hayagriva: Greece was not a
country as such; it was composed of small towns or cities, and Athens
Prabhupada: Anywhere [the
Hayagriva: ...Athens was the
biggest, and everyone got together and the wisest men spoke, and they
voted on their decisions.
Prabhupada: That is the
beginning of Parliament.
Prabhupada: So in monarchy
also there was council of learned men, brahmanas, great saintly
persons. Even Maharaja Yudhishthira was guided like that. Lord
Ramachandra was guided. That is the system. Even monarchy was there,
still he was advised by learned scholars and brahmanas and
saintly persons, and he would do according to their decision. And Vena
Maharaja, he was not ruling. The brahmanas came, advised him,
"My dear King, you are not doing nicely. You should do like this." And
when he refused, then he was killed, and his son Prithu Maharaja was
given charge. So-called democracy is ludicrous, that's a fact. All
fools and rascals bribing, and this way and that way they have taken
post, and when they go to the post, simply squander money, that's all.
Just they take bribes from big, big men, that "I will give you, repay
you ten times, you give me money."
Hari-sauri: The system of
continuously changing the government every four years means that...
Prabhupada: Every four days!
Devotee: For four years that
"I'll take advantage as much as possible for my personal gain, and then
Prabhupada: It is very, a
very dangerous position, this so-called democracy. Nobody cares for it.
So sometimes this emergency is required, but if it is used again for
personal aggrandizement, then it is also. Actually, the perfection of
government is monarchy, and the monarchy, monarch should be ideal rajarshi.
That is the Vedic system. The Vedic system was there everywhere;
therefore still there are monarchs. But they are simply maintaining the
monarchy, but actually monarch has no power.
Hayagriva: I think in the
history of the West all the monarchs have been ogres except maybe with
the exception of Constantine, who was a Christian monarch, and I think
that was the only one.
Hayagriva: But it was not...
Prabhupada: Monarch, that is
the idea, rajarshi. Raja and rishi. He is in
the position of raja, but he is actually a great sage. That is
required. Then everything will be perfect. Rajarshayo viduh,
Krishna says. And if the monarch, the chief man in the state, he
understands Bhagavad-gita, then everything will be
immediately perfect. Everything, immediate. Imam rajarshayo viduh
[Bg. 4.2], it is
clearly stated. But there is no monarchy, and all loafer class they are
taking charge of government. They do not know. Why they will know it?
They have gone there for getting some money. "I am now in position, get
that much money in bribes." They know, "After five years I will be
nowhere, so let me accumulate some money while I am on the ministerial
post." This is going on. Who cares for the good of the citizen? If we
discuss these things, it will be great criticism, but this is the