Against Our Principle

In the name of Vaishnavism they are drawing salary, living comfortably, having sense enjoyment
Conversation on Vairagya, Salaries and Political Etiquette, April 28, 1977, Bombay

Prabhupada: Nishkinchanasya. One who has decided that "This world is useless. I have to take birth repeatedly and accept different types of bodies and suffer." Body means... Those who have understood this fact and disgusted, so bhakti line is for them. One who has the tendency to enjoy this material world, and they are taking advantage of God, "Give me good wife, give me good work, good meal, good enjoyment," they are not in the bhakti line. They are in the very nascent stage.

Tamal Krsna: Nescient stage?

Prabhupada: Lower stage. Vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yogam [Chaitanya-charitamrita Madhya 6.254]. That... There is one verse written by Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya. What page I don't... Shikshartham. The bhakti-yoga, nija-bhakti-yoga... Bhakti-yoga means devotion to Krishna. And that is vairagya-vidya, how to learn, renounce this world. Otherwise why Chaitanya Mahaprabhu gave up His grihastha life? He's the same person. Why Rupa Gosvami gave up their ministership? By their personal behavior they are showing this is not required. This is vairagya-vidya. So under the circumstances, those who have no vairagya, they cannot live in the temple. They are taking advantage of the temple facilities for their sense enjoyment. Do you understand?

Tamal Krsna: Yes, I do.

Prabhupada: So that should be stopped. So to live with wife, together as a grihastha, and enjoy grihastha life, at the same time to live in temple, this should be discouraged. Temple is meant for brahmachari and sannyasi, our, mainly, not for grihastha, because they have got inclination to enjoy. To live with wife means enjoyment. They'll have sex. This should be discouraged. But one who is absolutely required, they also cannot be allowed to live together. It is badly done. Suppose if one is grihastha, he is in devotional service, but he has no money to look after his wife. In that case the wife can live in the temple but separately with women, not together. Together living is very disturbing. It is not at all recommended. Give this point. At least, this should not be encouraged.

Tamal Krsna: Generally in our temples, within the temple building no grihasthas live together, but in the temple compound, that is to say, around the temple, there may be other buildings. There they live together. But it's...

Prabhupada: No, I am speaking, within the temple.

Tamal Krsna: I think practically all over the society that has been stopped, the grihastha living together with wife. I don't think there's any case like that. But in the adjoining buildings they might be...

Prabhupada: Adjoining buildings... But the temple should not provide them with salary to enjoy their life. That is same thing.

Tamal Krsna: Generally the temples are providing them with apartments, like that.

Prabhupada: But that is temple.

Tamal Krsna: Yeah.

Prabhupada: Just like we have got so many tenants. They are living in their own. But they have no connection with the temple, neither the temple is paying them or... No, they are earning their own way.

Tamal Krsna: In other words, if the temple provides an apartment, it's the same as paying a salary.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Tamal Krsna: In other words, giving an apartment is the same thing as providing a salary.

Prabhupada: All right, apartment can be... But what is this? They are given high salary. Because his service is essential—"All right, you take apartment."

Tamal Krsna: But not...

Prabhupada: You take prasadam. But why salary? Where is the question of salary? Where is vairagya, renouncement? So in all circumstances the salary process should be stopped. One who wants salary, he can work outside.

Tamal Krsna: Actually, even if you don't give a salary, if you give an apartment and you give food and you give all these other things for someone to maintain his household life...

Prabhupada: Because his service is essential.

Tamal Krsna: But that has to be determined very strictly.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Whether his service is absolutely required? So you give him.

Tamal Krsna: That is the factor. That point must be clearly acknowledged.

Prabhupada: Hm hm. So he's trying to practice... Because sevonmukhe, if he gives service, then gradually he'll renounce. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah [Brahma-samhita 1.2.234]. God realization means service. The more you give service to the Lord, the more you become advanced in devotional... So one who is giving service, dedicated life, so maybe... But no salary. They may live in the temple, woman separate, man separate.

Tamal Krsna: They're... But the actual thing is that they're being, living together in an apartment, and the temple is paying for that apartment. They're not living separately in the temple. They're being...

Prabhupada: That is to be discouraged. What do you think?

Giriraja: I agree.

Prabhupada: In Los Angeles it is very freely going on. In the name of Vaishnavism they are drawing salary, living comfortably, having sense enjoyment. This is not good, not at all. So you all high officers, you think over it and do the needful.

Tamal Krsna: Vairagya should be cultivated.

Prabhupada: Vairagya... Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says clearly that nishkinchanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The bhagavad-bhajana, to become devotee of the Lord, means he's disgusted with this material world. For him, bhagavad-bhajana. Just like if I become disgusted with something, I require some change, similarly, bhagavad-bhajana is for him who is absolutely disgusted with this material world. And anyone who has got little interest in material enjoyment, he's not fit for bhagavad-bhajana. He'll have to accept again this material body, either he becomes Brahma or becomes an ant in the stool, according to his karma. Karmana daiva-netrena jantur deha-upapattaye [Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.31.1]. He'll have to develop certain type of body according to his desire of enjoyment. This is nature's law. Then where is the question of going back to home, back to Godhead? Why so many varieties of life? There is Brahma, and there is ant in the stool. So vairagya-vidya-nija... Vasudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogah prayojitah [SB 1.2.7], janayaty ashu vairagyam. And vairagyam means jnanam cha. When one is in full knowledge that "To remain in this material world is useless for me"—jnanam —"I am simply wasting my time by repetition of birth and death," then he can have vairagya. "Stop this!" If this sense is not awakened, there is no bhakti. It is not so easy. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na shocati na kankshati [Bhagavad-gita 18.54]. That is vairagya. So vairagya-vidya... Otherwise why big, big persons, they renounced everything? Bharata Maharaja, young man, the emperor of the whole world, gave up everything. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu personally teaches, young man, good, beautiful wife, young wife, so affectionate mother, so much honor in the society, Nimai Pandita, so beautiful body... Tyaktva sudustyaja-surepsita-rajya-lakshmim [SB 11.5.34]. Surepsita. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's position was, even the demigods, they desired such family life. But He still gave up. That is teaching. Therefore Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya says, vairagya-vidya-nija-bhak..., shikshartham: "to teach others." He understood that in order to teach others vairagya-vidya... He is the Supreme Person. Vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yoga-shikshartham ekah purana-purushah: [Cc. Madhya 6.254] "That He was, Supreme Lord. Now He has appeared as Sri Krishna Chaitanya." Sarira-dhari: "He has accepted one body as Sri Krishna Chaitanya." So these things should be stopped, that they should live comfortably with husband and wife, children, and take salary from the... You decide. This is not to our... Besides that, in our BBT it is clearly written that "Fifty percent for printing book, and fifty percent for..." So you cannot violate this. Those who can give voluntary service, "Welcome." Otherwise we don't require. At least they should not be given any salary. That is very bad. This is against principle.

If we take payment, that is not service. That is business.
Conversation with GBC, March 27, 1975, Mayapur

Prabhupada: Now, the Spiritual Sky... I have heard that you are paying two thousand rupees, er, two thousand dollars, per month to the accountant, and one thousand dollars to Karandhara.

Jayatirtha: Yes, about that.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Jayatirtha: Seventeen hundred dollars a month to the accountant, full-time accountant. That is the average price in America for a first-class accountant. Otherwise, we have to hire, get Atreya Rsi to come and do it.

Prabhupada: And Karandhara is taking one thousand dollars?

Jayatirtha: Well, here's the problem, that because it is a business, people must, that work there, have to get regular salary and pay taxes. Otherwise we can get in a lot of trouble. We can get in a lot of trouble. Maybe Bhagavan may know.

Bhagavan: Well, I have the same thing in France. Spiritual Sky is a legal business. That means you have to legally employ people. But I employ the temple people and just take their salary.

Jayatirtha: Yes. That's all right.

Bhagavan: Do you take Karandhara's salary?

Jayatirtha: No, that's a different thing. Anyway, let me finish the point. The point is that legal salary has to be paid, and then taxes have to paid from that. So for example, Karandhara's salary is not really a good example because he doesn't give fifty percent. But one thousand dollars is the salary.

Bhagavan: Minimum? Minimum salary?

Prabhupada: No.

Jayatirtha: That eight hundred, two hundred goes for taxes...

Prabhupada: No our, our... That was the... Formerly, who was managing?

Jayatirtha: Formerly, I was managing.

Prabhupada: So you were also taking one thousand?

Jayatirtha: I was... But that was... But I was... I wasn't taking anything. But that was...

Prabhupada: Then? How...? Why he is taking?

Jayatirtha: Because we were working illegally.

Hansadutta: The thing is the whole situation has deteriorated into a karmi business, and no one's making any profit on it.

Jayatirtha: Well, now, let's...

Hansadutta: It's just a headache.

Jayatirtha: That is a... That is an unschooled statement, an uneducated statement. It's not a...

Hansadutta: No, that's not a fact. Where is the advantage?

Jayatirtha: Anyway, let me finish... That's why I don't want to discuss this in front of Prabhupada, because of argument. Anyway, the next point is that, as far as Karandhara's salary is concerned...

Prabhupada: No, the Spiritual Sky was contemplated that our grihastha bhaktas may be employed...

Hansadutta: Yeah, but they're not employed anymore.

Jayatirtha: That's not true.

Prabhupada: And the bare necessities should be paid.

Jayatirtha: Right. Well, generally we have about seventeen, eighteen grihasthas employed in Los Angeles, and they get much smaller salary, and they, for the most part, they're giving everything over subsistence to the temple as donation. They take out minimum subsistence...

Prabhupada: But Karandhara is not giving anything.

Jayatirtha: Well, his point is... As you know, he made that unauthorized loan from BBT when he left, for five thousand dollars. And he has to pay it back at three hundred dollars per month. So after he makes...

Prabhupada: Unauthorized loan?

Jayatirtha: When he left last year, he took loan for five thousand dollars, and he is repaying at three hundred dollars per month. So after taxes, he gets eight hundred dollars. Three hundred dollars goes to BBT. That's five hundred. Now, with the balance, he supports his wife and children, and his wife is giving donations for Deities and so on. So he is not actually...

Prabhupada: No, that you discuss whether he is... Otherwise I can give you a very first-class man, but he won't charge anything.

Jayatirtha: Who is that?

Prabhupada: That I'll not disclose. [laughter] You give him simply, his wife and him, a shelter. He's Indian, I can say.

Jayatirtha: Oh.

Prabhupada: And he is qualified man. He can do. Yes.

Atreya Rsi: Srila Prabhupada...

Jayatirtha: But he's not a devotee.

Atreya Rsi: Karandhara's management is—I mean I'm just looking at it from another view—is worth more than two thousand dollars. So if he is getting only one...

Prabhupada: But your management is not worth five thousand dollars?

Atreya Rsi: Mine is worth nothing.

Prabhupada: Then why you are giving free service? Anyone, all of my disciples, they are qualified. Their service is worth more than any thousands of... Yes. So why you are maintaining Karandhara? All of them, they are giving free service. But they are all worthy to take salary, two thousand, three thousand, five thousand...

Atreya Rsi: Karandhara is only, what he's getting is only enough for his maintenance.

Prabhupada: That's all right.

Atreya Rsi: We are being maintained.

Prabhupada: No, no. Maintenance... Here, everyone can earn money and maintain him, but here this expense should be sacrifice. The essential is service.

Hansadutta: It's his service...

Prabhupada: Service, yes.

Hansadutta: It was started for that reason.

Prabhupada: If we take payment, that is not service. That is business. That is business.

Jayatirtha: It is, no doubt, a fact that Karandhara is not giving his full, is giving his full life as service. That is a fact. It may be taken...

Prabhupada: Yes. Our organization is to give service.

"Simple living and high thinking"—not sense gratification
Letter to Kirtiraja das (in Los Angeles), 12 January, 1975

Any householder devotee who is working full-time (with his wife) as a sankirtana book distributer, of temple managerial duties, artist, cook, etc. shall be provided food, shelter, and other bare minimum necessities by the temple itself. They should not cook their own meals separate from the temple meals. If they have children, then some minimal allowance may be given according to the number of children. If they want anything extra or over and above what the temple president sees as absolute necessity, then they should work outside—the temple cannot pay for anything beyond the bare necessities. And definitely, the BBT cannot pay any salary to anybody. Our philosophy is "simple living and high thinking"—not sense gratification. The temple presidents and leaders (elder students) must show this by example. Temple or asrama means for renunciation and renounced persons. If one is engaged in self-realization process, then his material necessities become almost nil. Persons who do not like this can work outside.